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simmosonic

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  1. Hi again Martijn, Just going back to your original question regarding amex, etc. In my experiences through Nepal and India, the best thing you can have is a Visa card that is linked to your other bank accounts through internet banking, and with a PIN for ATM access. I have pasted below a couple of posts that I put on the forum I create for each of my overseas group recording expeditions (one coming up this December/January, shameless promo apology!). I hope you find it useful, bearing in mind that it is written for people (mostly audio students) accompanying me from Australia, so you might need to put it into your own geographical context. Here are two of the posts, 'Money #1' and 'Money #2': MONEY #1 Access to money is very important when you’re travelling. The options are: a) cash traveller’s cheques c) VISA card with ATM access d) internet banking e) Travelex ‘cash passport’ Before considering any of these options, I urge you to get internet banking on all of your bank accounts. If you lose your ATM card or whatever, you can always transfer money into a fellow traveller’s account for withdrawal, and thereby have access to your money. Now, let's look at those options... Cash Carrying a load of cash on a trip like this is just plain stupid. Forget it... Travellers Cheques These are almost a dead concept these days, although they are still available and there are plenty of places to cash them in. It wouldn’t hurt to carry $50 US worth of American Express traveller’s cheques just in case nothing else works; I usually do as a back-up. VISA card with ATM access In my opinion, the best thing you can have for a trip like this is a Visa card with ATM access and connection to internet banking. (You can use Mastercard but only at very few ATMs; I have one as a back-up but I can't recommend it as a primary option.) The worldwide network of ATMs that work with VISA cards is extensive. I have a VISA card with a PIN (issued by the same bank that my cheque account, savings account and Mastercard are with), and can use it in just about every ATM in Nepal and India. When travelling, I’m often the only person in the group who can withdraw money. Your standard ATM cards might work in some places, but the VISA with PIN works in at least 95% of the ATMs I've had to use. My Visa ATM card is linked to my cheque and savings accounts. At ATMs belonging to larger banks I can use it to withdraw money from either of those accounts, exactly like here in Sydney. In some ATMs I can only access the Visa account itself. That’s no problem because all of my accounts (VISA, Mastercard, cheque and savings) are linked via internet banking. So, if I’m in a place where the ATM only lets me access my VISA account and it is low on funds, I simply transfer money into it from one of my other accounts via internet banking. The money is usually transferred immediately. A VISA card is also useful for paying for things when you don’t have any cash – many places will accept VISA more readily than any other card. Forget about cards from American Express, Mastercard, Diners Club, etc. They’re a waste of time in the places we're going. Internet banking ATMs and internet access are readily available in just about every place where you would need to get hold of money: Kathmandu, Pokhara, Varanasi, Chennai, Delhi and McLeod Ganj. So, my proven and reliable advice is to get yourself a Visa credit card with ATM access and get it connected to your other bank account(s) with internet banking. The same probably applies to a VISA Debit card, but I haven't tried it. At the very least, get internet banking for your existing account(s). In the past, students who have been unable to access their bank accounts via ATMs have transferred their money into one of my accounts (via internet banking), and I have then withdrawn the money for them. It’s very easy, and if your accounts are with the same bank I use, the money usually appears in my account immediately. If you are with a different bank, the money usually appears soon after midnight (Australia time). Because Kathmandu is about four or five hours behind Australia time, that means if you transferred money into my account at 5pm Kathmandu time (about 9pm Australia time), it would probably appear in my bank account some time after 8pm (midnight in Australia) the same day, which is helpful. During my second trip to Tibet I was the only one of five people who could withdraw money from all of the ATMs. Everyone else got into the habit of transferring money into my account via the internet so that I could withdraw it for them. It was a major operation every evening – who transferred how much, etc. They nicknamed me The Bank of Australia! The biggest problem with that approach is that some ATMs and accounts have a daily withdrawal limit, so a bit of planning and juggling was required when trying to get enough money for five people. (I’d prefer not to be The Bank of Australia this time, so please try to get yourself a Visa card with ATM access and internet banking, that links all of your accounts together.) Travelex Cash Passport These have become the replacement for the traditional travellers cheques. You can learn about Travelex Cash Passport cards here: http://www.cashpassport.com.au/features.html The cool things about these are:1) You can buy them over the counter, just like Travellers Cheques (you’ll need your passport or similar photo ID). There are Travelex offices all over the airport, so you can buy one on your way out of the country (just like Travellers Cheques) and the card is issued on the spot. 2) You can top them up via BPay, which is handy if your parents or others need to bail you out with a cash advance.3) They are a Visa card and therefore work just about anywhere.4) You can check your account on-line. The uncool things are that the costs are kind of high, and the BPay top-up process can take a couple of days to appear in your account. More about that in a later post WHATEVER YOU DO, GET INTERNET BANKING AS A BACK-UP!!! MONEY #2 The unit of currency in Nepal is the Nepalese rupee. Typically, the Australian dollar buys between 50 and 70 rupees. You can buy a cheap lunch (a plate of momos and a bottle of Coke) for under 100 rupees; your bed in Kathmandu will be around 300 rupees ($6 AUD) per night. The unit of currency in India is the Indian rupee, which is also known as 'I.C.' (Indian Currency). 100 Indian rupees is worth about 160 Nepalese rupees. In India, rent is more expensive than Nepal but food is often as cheap or cheaper. There is no need to get rupees of any kind before you leave Australia. It is wise, however, to carry some US dollars with you from Australia to Nepal, perhaps $100 US. You can get this at Sydney airport prior to departing - it gives you something to do while waiting, and saves you the hassle of doing it beforehand. Why waste an hour or more of your day going to the bank with your passport and so on getting US dollars, when you know you're going to be hanging around the airport for a couple of hours before your flight anyway, with your passport in hand, surrounded by places that can change currency? Do it there... Those US dollars will be useful for purchasing a meal at Bangkok or whatever airport you have to stop at on the way, and you'll need $40 US (it MUST be US dollars!) if you plan to get your Nepalese Visa on arrival in Nepal. Once you're in Kathmandu, the remaining US dollars can be converted to local currency to tide you over until you get to the ATM. (There are currency exchange places everywhere; there is even one on the ground floor of the guest house we’ll be staying at!) Or you can choose to carry them in your wallet, as back-up cash... I will be at the airport to pick you up and transport you to the guest house, so you won't have to worry about needing any local currency for taxis, porters or anything like that. Assuming you have followed my earlier advice regarding VISA cards and internet banking, you'll have no problems with money. You simply switch your thinking to the local currency and economy, and that's all there is to it. All purchases occur in local currency, and all of the ATMs in each country convert and display your account balance in their local currency and spit out local currency as well. No problems there... I hope that stuff was helpful, Martijn!
  2. Pity about those dates; so close! What sort of local stuff are you looking for? Music, atmos, street sounds, anything else? Typical cool things to capture in and around Kathmandu are: Rickshaw rides through the Thamel district at different times of day. I usually approach a rickshaw driver and negotiate a price to cycle me around a huge block for 15 minutes or so. Typically the rickshaw driver will be *very* happy with two or three hundred Nepalese rupees (there are about 74 rupees to one US dollar). You will capture a wide variety of sounds. Wake up very early in the morning (about 4:30am), get yourself to Swoyambunath (commonly known as the Monkey Temple), and make your way to Dongak Chhyoling Old Monastery (that's the correct English spelling) at the back, next to the stupa. Aim to get there at around 5am. Carefully chase the monkeys away (they huddle in the doorway), pound on the door a few times and eventually the monks will let you in. They do a long puja (prayer) in there early every morning, dedicate to the Tibetan Buddhist deity Tara. It goes for about 70 minutes, and has some interesting moments. There are only ever a handful of monks on duty, typically four or five. They will let you set up microphones and so on if you get in before they start, but they're not likely to give you a soundcheck or wait until you're ready! If you sit quietly during the puja, at about 2/3 of the way through they will offer you some nice hot butter tea, which is just what you need at about that time. Tibetan Buddhists will be coming and going all morning, making blessings, performing prostrations on the floor in front of the Buddha, lighting many candles and so on. Also, there is very little isolation from the other temples outside so you will have all manner of sounds coming and going. I find that quite interesting. At the end, it is normal to a) offer the monks a listen to playback (sometimes they are very interested, other times they simply pack up and go!), and, most importantly, make an offering to the monastery. Typically 1,000 or more rupees is considered good gratitude (monks are not really allowed to negotiate prices, of course). Images can be seen here: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=5721237&l=2e3b1e2c92&id=660068713 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=5721240&l=108d5f5e58&id=660068713 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=5721892&l=b4d2036873&id=660068713 On the streets of the Thamel district in Kathmandu you won't miss the wandering Gandharba musicians, walking along playing their sarangis (crude fiddles), which they play for money. They will also try to sell you a sarangi or a madal (two-headed drum); this is what they do for an income. They are not beggars. It is okay to pay them to play for you. There is a fantastically crowded intersection just outside of Thamel, in an area known as Asan, where about six or more streets/laneways converge. It is mostly people on foot, but motorbikes make their through there as well. Street vendors line the sides of the streets with fresh produce and similar. Classic busy Asian/sub-continent intersection sounds. Images can be seen here: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=4868637&l=9dd605c10c&id=660068713 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=4868638&l=51bf590d29&id=660068713 Just on the outskirts of Thamel, in a slightly different direction to Asan, is Chhetrapati Chowk (intersection), where numerous roads and streets converge. Cars, motorbikes, bicycles, pedestrians and the occasional goat or buffalo all bottle-neck through this tiny intersection. There is a rotunda in the middle of it, an ideal place to set up and record stuff without fear of getting run down! It is about a five minute walk from the centre of Thamel. You might also want to get out to Bouddhanath stupa (about 15 to 20 minutes in a taxi from Thamel, fare is typically about 300 rupees). This is the classic Buddhist stupa seen countless times in pics of Nepal. Tibetans will spend hours doing koras (walking clockwise around the stupa), running their mullah (Buddha beads) through their fingers and reciting 'Om Mani Padme Hum' over and over again. Lots of interesting sounds there, and in the taxi ride as well. While you're in the Bouddhanath area, considering visiting Pashupatinath. This is where many of the cremations take place. As a non-Hindu Westerner you will be allowed to view the proceedings from across the small river that the ashes are swept into. Sometimes there are many sounds of mourning and so on - I was there once and recorded the most heartbreaking cries of a woman as the men tried to free her son's body from a flight coffin, to load it onto the pyre. He had been killed while doing duty in the Gurkha division of the British army. They couldn't open the metal-lined box, and were using crowbars and hammers and making a complete mess of it. It was truly heart-breaking; the sounds of her cries as the situation got worse and worse - especially after her son became visible through the parts of the box they had managed to fold back. I recorded the sound, but I did not attempt to photograph or film it - I drew the line at that point. There are also many interesting atmos type sounds to be captured in and around Durbar Square, again just outside of Thamel. And there are also lots of small courtyards with stupas and/or temples in them; often quite secluded, and sometimes rich in sounds. Look for tiny little covered laneways as you walk down the streets - many of them lead to such places. If you are after atmos and similar, the above might give you a good starting point... If you are after music, let me know and I will hook you up with a couple of local studio owners who are well connected with local musicians and are more than happy to extend their famous Nepalese hospitality to Western audio people. I hope that is useful, Martijn. I have added you to my Skype list - maybe we can chat that way?
  3. All that Jason said is still true for the Thamel district (we stayed there together in 2005). That's where I'd recommend staying, Martijn. I spend on average about 4 months of every year in Nepal, recording local musicians, village music, soundscapes, etc. In fact, I am returning there in two weeks from now. I will be in Kathmandu from the 27th of August to the 11th of September, and will have my recording rig with me. I would be very happy to meet up over there and help you get a good place to stay and get connected with good local people. What sort of equipment are you planning on bringing? What are you planning to record? - Greg Simmons
  4. No problem Mike, it provided a convenient excuse to clarify the videos (which I have mixed feelings about)... ;-) I'll be keen to hear your thoughts on the 5100 after you've used it in the field. By the way, I've just learnt that the Holophone H2 Pro now uses Sennheiser MKE2 capsules.
  5. There's something I should add to the Holophone H2 Pro/DPA 5100 comparison. The H2 Pro's mounting bracket allows it be angled upwards or downwards with relative ease. The 5100 has no such capability, you have to angle it with the stand.
  6. That's correct, Jack... The sound in all of those AIM videos (including my spoken introductions) is directly from the video camera's built in mic; it's a little Sony handheld thing. The guy responsible for making the AIM videos likes to shoot, edit and get it on-line as quickly as possible. I like his approach, but it means I never have the time to prepare the proper audio for him. (Or check his spelling and grammar, which are both a bit flaky!) Essentially, he'll say, "Hey, I'm going to make the [monks] video, are you okay to do an introduction". Then we're into the control room to make the intro video and it seems like moments later, whammy! It's on line... I initially found it quite frustrating but I've gotten used to it. The audio on this Tibetan monk recording is the camera's built in mic; however, the 5100 can be seen in the video, and I am very happy with the resulting recording.
  7. I'll be back in Australia on Sunday, assuming I can get through Thailand! Shouldn't be a problem, I'm in transit only, not leaving the airport.
  8. I’m putting the following up as user feedback about DPA’s 5100 and Holophone’s H2 Pro , but I must qualify it beforehand by saying that I don’t own either of those microphones. Both microphones have been lent to me on separate occasions by their respective manufacturers (or their local agents) to use on my overseas recording expeditions, in exchange for user feedback, magazine reviews, etc. I am not on the payroll of either manufacturer or their agents, nor am I required to provide endorsements (not that anyone would listen!). I am expected to test the products thoroughly, and to be fair with my appraisals (as any magazine reviewer should be – it is very easy to play it safe and say only good things about a product, and it is very easy to be unnecessarily ‘harsh’ in an attempt to appear unbiased and critical, but it is much harder to be even-handed). With that in mind, here are some thoughts about the 5100 (jokingly referred to as the ‘bike seat’ among DPA staff) versus the Holophone. Both are self-contained ‘point and shoot’ products, and both use DPA microphone capsules (the H2 Pro that I used was fitted with DPA 4060 series miniature omnis, and I suspect the 5100 uses the same – the manual describes them as 5.4mm diameter pressure capsules, although the 5100 has some very clever stuff to give them directionality without proximity effect or similar). The Holophone H2 Pro uses an array of omnis flush-mountd around an egg-shaped body. Like Neumann’s M50, they use the shape of the body to alter the directionality of each capsule. It’s a very clever idea. The 5100 uses interference tubes and baffles to achieve directionality; also very clever. Both manufacturers have gone to considerable lengths with research and so on. The H2 Pro’s frontal image is created by three spaced omnis, the 5100’s by a coincident trio of DiPMics (pressure capsules with directionality, very clever). This is where the major sonic difference between the two exists, in my experience. The frontal image created by the 5100 has all the characteristics of a coincident array, including good imaging and excellent mono compatibility, but a poor sense of spaciousness (it makes this up with the rear microphones, of course). The H2 Pro has all the characteristics of a spaced array, including a good sense of spaciousness and ‘size’, but less precise imaging. For situations where accurate frontal imaging is required, e.g. detailed documentary work, sports events (used in conjunction with a shotgun mounted above it), or direct-to-5.1 music recording, I’d choose the 5100. For situations requiring a more spatial sound with less precise frontal imaging (i.e. general movie atmos), I’d be inclined towards the H2 Pro (given a choice) because its array of spaced omnidirectional microphones does a very good of creating a spatial sensation with a less defined frontal image. One of my favourite Holophone recordings was made by some of my students in front of a monastery in Gyantse, Tibet. It was about 4am, absolutely freezing cold. Feral dogs are barking and running around them, their claws clattering on the frigid stone ground – highly effective in 5.1. Meanwhile, a monk repeatedly bangs a deep gong to call all the monks in for breakfast. It’s a very evocative recording, and a perfect example of something the H2 Pro does very well. The 5100 would’ve captured this cleanly, but I doubt it would’ve had quite the sense of ‘space’ – it really appreciates something to focus on. One of my favourite recordings made with the 5100 is the Gyuto monks of Tibet. There is a good sense of the acoustics and space of the assembly hall in Dharamsala, but there is also sufficient detail in the frontal image to clearly isolate individual voices across the front line. This is something the 5100 does very well, but I would not have got such a good result with the H2 Pro. If stereo downmixing is a major requirement, the 5100’s coincident frontal array gives it a big advantage. I find it is hard to get a good stereo downmix from the H2 Pro because all the mics are spaced apart and there always seems to be a bit of combing between the frontal mics. In comparison to Holophone’s H2 Pro, the 5100 is considerably smaller and lighter, and nowhere near as fussy for packing (you can toss it into a backpack or similar with no problems – its housing is also its packaging, rightly or wrongly!). For situations where I need to pack light and move fast, I’d prefer the 5100 to the H2 Pro. In fact, the 5100 is an easy-going pleasure to use, the H2 Pro is somewhat more demanding. The H2 Pro’s fixed cable is a real PITA, the mounting bracket is wonderfully over-engineered (I like over-engineered things) but difficult to pack, and I was always uncomfortable with the capsules being so exposed on the outside of the ‘egg’. You really need a good way to pack and protect it. If you’re in a crew with vehicles and so on, the H2 Pro’s Pelican case does the job nicely. But if you’re footslogging it through mountains or jungles, the H2 Pro is hard work… It’s bigger, heavier and more demanding than the 5100. (That’s the price for being an innovator, I guess! The Holophone pretty much lead the way, and others were then able to learn from the Holophone’s mistakes and avoid them. Mind you, the 5100 is packed full of innovations of its own.) Both sound quite good, and are both are capable of doing a good job provided the engineer understands the limitations of the 5.1 medium and works within them. I haven’t had a chance to directly AB the two of them, tonally, but I suspect the H2 Pro will sound slightly brighter than the 5100. (I should try that when I return to Sydney; I’ve got enough recordings of each to get the idea…) In many respects, you can think of them as instamatic cameras; fast and convenient, and capable of great results in the hands of someone who knows how to compose a shot. But they have their limitations… Both use very small diaphragms (5.4mm) and that means they have rather high self-noise figures, equal to or greater than 18dBA. You’re not going to get good results on low level sounds, especially those without much HF content to mask the self-noise (keep the Sennheiser RFs for that stuff). But for city scapes, jungle sounds, general atmos, music and so on, no problem. They do have relatively high sensitivities, however, so they don’t need much gain, which means you’re not going to be adding any more noise if you’ve got a half-decent preamp. Both are capable of 5.1, but if you need more than that the H2 Pro is the only choice of the two with its rear centre mic and top mic… But before considering any 5.1 mic purchase, one needs to question the validity of the entire concept. For a start, the LFE microphone is essentially useless if we look at what the LFE channel is intended for (to place manufactured LF sounds to bolster special effects) and if we consider that each of the other mics in both the 5100 and the H2 Pro captures the full audio bandwidth anyway. So it is easier to argue against the LFE mic than for it… In all of the recordings I have made with both the 5100 and the H2 Pro, I have never used the LFE channel. I have fiddled with its level from time to time, bringing it up, putting it back, etc. But ultimately, it always ends up muted because it is not adding anything that isn’t already there, and only serves to make the recording bass heavy. Taking away that unnecessary LFE microphone leaves you with a 5.0 microphone. Then there is the question of the centre microphone. For decades before 5.1 came along we were creating very stable and solid centre images with a traditional stereo pair; although that would only apply to someone sitting in the sweet spot, which is the advantage of the centre speaker. But if you’re specifically capturing film atmos with a 5.0 microphone, it would not be surprising to see the film mixer turning down the centre channel atmos to avoid conflicting with the dialogue. In other words, it could be argued that the centre microphone is not only unnecessary but is actually a hindrance. Get rid of it and you have a 4.0 microphone. A traditional stereo pair of some kind for the front (ORTF perhaps for its slightly vaguer centre image and increased spaciousness), where the centre atmos exists as a phantom image (between the LF and RF speakers) that is easily subdued by dialogue panned to the centre speaker. And a rear pair chosen to create some kind of envelopment through the rear speakers – possibly baffled omnis as in the 5100. For capturing supporting atmos for film and television applications, where the entire sound image is constructed from bits and pieces, a four microphone array could produce a very acceptable result, requiring less tracks and therefore a less complex recording device. For making direct-to-5.1 recordings that have to stand alone without visual support (e.g. music) or that need to accurately portray what is seen on screen (e.g. nature documentary), a 5.1 microphone (such as the 5100 or the H2 Pro) is a very good option, although you can almost certainly get by without the LFE channel. I hope that is helpful, and makes sense. Some of it has been re-purposed from a 5100 review I'm about to submit to AudioTechnology magazine, so hopefully it fits properly. - Greg Simmons
  9. Thanks, and please forgive my verbosity. I can type rather fast, and find it faster and easier to send a messy lot than a tidy little; especially in places where internet access is scarce or flaky...
  10. This is my first post here and I haven’t spent ages trawling through the archives to familiarise myself with the community I’m addressing, so please tell me to shut up if it feels like I am telling you how to suck eggs… I’m glad you found the clip interesting, Mike. It was never intended for working pros like the members of this forum, of course, but I’m chuffed that it ended up here. It is primarily a promotional 'micro-lecture' video for AIM, the school I work for (as are all of the micro-lectures on AIM’s website). The idea is to give potential students a feel for the diversity of things we do at AIM and how we do them. Not adventurous? As an educational exercise conducted during class time, I cannot afford to be too adventurous; as a teacher I have a ‘duty of care’ to attend to. Standing on a traffic island in a main street recording passing vehicles would not be considered defensible as a learning experience if one of my students got injured! I might as well have told them to go play on the road… (Also, my own experience with direct-to-5.1 recordings tell me that such a recording is not as exciting in practice as one would imagine it to be, but more about that later...) It’s a totally different 'adventurous' ball game on my student recording expeditions through Nepal, India and Tibet, however. Those expeditions happen outside of the college semesters and therefore the participants are technically not my students, rather, they are co-travellers with their own travel insurance and so on. So, anything goes; we’ve recorded 5.1 on the roof of a moving bus in Nepal, in rickshaws and tuk-tuks, hanging out the door of a speeding train in India as another train approaches from the other direction and passes, rowing down the Ganges (microphone facing the ghats with boats passing by in the rear), lowering the mic down over a chaotic four lane roadway in Kathmandu from an overhead pedestrian bridge, in caves full of bats, on the borders between hardwood forests and swamps, in jungle clearings (got charged at by an angry rhino recently), and so on. From my experiences with direct-to-5.1 microphones (Holophone H2 Pro and DPA 5100 only), I’ve learnt that a direct-to-5.1 recording that features predominantly front to rear movement (such as your traffic island example if you’re facing on-coming vehicles) is rarely exciting to listen to unless it satisfies the following criteria: a) the front to rear movement happens relatively slowly; the front to rear movement is accompanied by some kind of left/right or right/left movement; c) the image is not cluttered with too many other similar sounds moving around; d) the front to rear moving sound source contains sufficient midrange and/or high frequency energy for the ear/brain system to localise it from the extreme sides and the rear. If you are creating a 5.1 mix using discrete sounds and panning, you can make it very exciting because you have complete control of the criteria mentioned above – you can even choose the individual sounds. However, you don’t have anywhere near as much control when making a recording with a direct-to-5.1 microphone in a real location, which is why it is so important to ‘compose’ the sound scene from the beginning by careful microphone placement within the location. For the lesson on the video I chose lapping and flowing water, based on earlier experiences with the Holophone H2 Pro recording the Kali Gandaki river (http://tinyurl.com/3ywscpb). For the video lesson I placed the DPA 5100 so that the small waves break slightly diagonally across the frontal image (creating left/right and right/left movement) before the water trickles up through channels in the rocks and seaweed past either side of the microphone, then drains back down again. Trickling water is very easy to localize, and it moves slowly enough to track to the rear and back again. That recording satisfies all of the front/rear movement criteria I mentioned above. The subtle sideways movement of a wave breaking across the front of the stereo image grabs the listener’s attention and provides a moving target to ‘track’, which is nicely followed by the water trickling alongside and past the left and/or right sides of the microphone to the rear. In fact, in the part of the video where the students are evaluating the recording in the control room, you can clearly see one of them tracing the path of the water as it moves around him. That wasn’t staged (although the students were aware of the camera and were probably hamming it up a bit). Nonetheless, I was happy to see them commenting on that sense of movement; it meant the lesson (their actual class lesson, not the micro-lecture video lesson) achieved many of its objectives. The fruit bat recording at the start of the video, on the other hand, was just chaotic. All of the bats were way up above the microphone, so there was no sense of direction, dimension or movement, just lots of screeching cacophony. We really needed a taller stand to get some left/right/front/back detail. On the positive side, it is a reasonably even balance because all the bats were relatively far away, so there is not such a big difference between those immediately above us and those further out. I’m also thankful that we didn’t get a load of guano on ourselves or on the microphone… - Greg Simmons
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