tourtelot

"spending more money for writers and actors would seem from their perspective a non-starter. It could break some of them." Sucks to be a billionaire, right? D.

Well, I certainly now realize how chauvinistic my original post was. Of course, I was relating this to the WGA and SAG/AFTRA labor strike in the USA. Does this affect anyone in, let's say, Germany, Greece or Sweden. D.

Here is a Gigabit switch with POE. https://www.amazon.com/Industrial-1000Mbps-Ethernet-Capacity-Universal/dp/B0C9C7JG3H/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_w=pEXwS&content-id=amzn1.sym.5f7e0a27-49c0-47d3-80b2-fd9271d863ca%3Aamzn1.symc.e5c80209-769f-4ade-a325-2eaec14b8e0e&pf_rd_p=5f7e0a27-49c0-47d3-80b2-fd9271d863ca&pf_rd_r=28AJZXVFHRNWD914A6P3&pd_rd_wg=VT0fe&pd_rd_r=f3504ebe-ae0b-4c6b-90b6-54fe35951c4c&ref_=pd_gw_ci_mcx_mr_hp_atf_m&th=1 Two questions that I could not find answers to is 1) is POE "auto detect and deliver" or always on, and, 2) is it able to have the "Green Ethernet" function disabled (Dante hates Green Ethernet). But the price point and 12VDC powering might make it worth further exploration. D.

Plug and play. https://www.amazon.com/Splitter-Compliant-Surveillance-5-5x2-1mm-PS5712TG/dp/B08HS4NT13/ref=sr_1_3?crid=19WXML4FZFUU&keywords=POE%2B12VDC&qid=1692213795&sprefix=poe%2B12vdc%2Caps%2C182&sr=8-3&th=1 You might need to change out the DC connector. D.

I do not believe the 888 has POE but there are small inline boxes that will do that. Both the Neutrik and the Audinate Avio need POE. D.

On a side note, whatever happened to Loon? D.

And line level. D.

Yep. The bigger the show, the more points of failure. Hopefully, professionals all around will make it all good, but that isn't always the case. D.

Fair enough, I hear you. FWIW, all this seems to have very little to do with TC sync, since it seems TC sync is not nearly accurate as needed. But more to do with video sync, gen lock which as I understand, can be delivered via black burst (which I am familiar with) or tri-level (which I know almost nothing about how that works). I think, in the real world, clocking the Dante network to gen lock would be the closest to being ideal (expensive box) or, if I understand, cutting video to audio. I assume that this is/can be done the other way around but when would that be necessary, and wouldn't it cause many more sync issues? D.

But no one anywhere stays on the wide master for one half of a concert, right. I get the wish to keep sync as tight as possible but the difference in "drift" between an audio rig (let's say a Dante network) and a multi-camera set up should be pretty minimal if clocks used are in the 1PPM accuracy range. Even 5PPM. Think about that. Sync accuracy within 5 parts per million. Over a 24-hour day? Unnoticeable. Weird but I never hear complaints from editors in my world (live acoustic music performance streams) about sound/camera drift. Maybe they just fix it, but in my experience, if post editors are inconvenienced in any way, they will let the field folks know. Also to be clear, this is about "drift" and not about matching latencies. I typically dial in audio delay to match video "lip sync" but once that is set, there are no sync issues that I have ever heard of. Just my experience of course. There are devices that will function as the master clock to a Dante network using black burst or tri-level sync and then set to "sync from external" to all the Dante cards in the network. Dante will never get out of sync with itself; one of the parks of a Dante network. But I am not sure I believe the expense is warranted in most cases. A fifteen camera Rolling Stones concert shoot might be an exception. But in that case, budgets would allow for negotiations. D.

Being out of the loop so to speak, is anyone on the forum working right now? I am curious about those 40 or so (?) "Independently Produced" projects that SAG/AFTRA and WGA have let continue on during the strike, along with IATSE notice that it was "legal" for members to not cross the picket lines. How about in locales other that the USA? What's up in the real world? Inquiring minds want to know. D.

They are ACTORS for goodness sakes! D.

This! And this! Make the folks that make work, work. D.

Yes, the Grace m108 native clock is 10PPM. Lynx Aurora (legacy) is 22PPM, Aurora (N) is 7PPM. D.

Yeah and they make movies with iPhones these days. What are ya gonna do? We are dinosaurs these days; the kids have taken over. D.

Antelope claims 0.02PPM for its Antelope Audio 10MX Rubidium Atomic Master Clock. Almost $7K. D.

Is this a real number? Can you cite a device(s) spec'd at 0.1PPM? Sincere question. I find what are called "high precision digital clocks" spec'd at 1PPM. There is a device that is touted as specifically being a "Dante Leader Clock" and is rated at 1PPM for clock accuracy. One part per million over the length of one year. No affiliation: https://studio-tech.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/ds_m5401a_5.pdf And what clock accuracy is REALLY necessary for any work that you or I might do. I have never seen any program that doesn't cut away to some other shot over the long length of time that has been mentioned. At least in my world, picture gets cut to sound so a PPM among friends shouldn't matter. Please correct me if my thinking is off. Oh and Philip's thoughts about joining two Dante networks up for a multi-camera concert shoot? Me neither! I don't want the hassle of a pissing contest about who controls the joint network. It was bad enough in the day arguing about who took the transformer side of an analog microphone split. I'll use my analog splitter and take the transformer side. You power the mics. Or the other way around. I really don't care. D.

Lots of advantages to a Dante network that mitigate the cost, not the least of which is I can carry 1000' of fiber to a venue in one hand that will allow me to send and receive hundreds of tracks of audio. Think of 1000' of, even, 24 channel copper and you can see why I consider anything but Dante almost never. D.

And BTW, I was speaking about drift. But things like house consoles and stage boxes on a Dante network get their clocks sync'd from their Dante cards. Dante makes it a point of controlling digital clocks in their network unless told to do otherwise. That is where "sync to external" comes in. I just talked to the folks at Grace (I use their preamps) about the accuracy of the digital clocks in m108s. Waiting for an answer. I can, and sometimes do, sync my Dante network externally from one of my m108's clock thinking (and maybe falsely) that the Grace clock should be of very high quality. I will know soon enough. Obviously, for me, even providing audio for a stream, I am not too concerned and never have had any push-back about sync issues. Most of the streaming video guys I work with don't know or don't care. I have never had a discussion. Everyone seems more interested in delay. FW that IW. I just heard back from Alex at Grace. He says the clocks in the m108 preamps are spec'd at 10ppm with a 15ppm frequency stability. How accurate or gen-lock clocks in the real world? D.

Mathew, you make a very good point. I will reach out to tech at Audinate and see if I can get an accuracy spec outta them. More soon. And Philip, in re-reading my post, it might seem that I was saying "Sync from external" was less reliable that using a Dante card clock in one device as the master. Not what I meant. Only that "sync from external" is more rarely used, at least in my experience. Maybe the answer IS to "Sync from external" for the Dante network using the most accurate clock in the house? BTW, here is a link for an extensive article about using Dante to shoot a music event across great distances. I have not digested it all but it might be interesting. https://www.audinate.com/webinar-peltrix-takes-dante-over-distance-with-blue-note-entertainment-group D.

In the day, Lectro 185s were light-years ahead of Micron, HME, and Cerwin Vega. :):) I am glad that I don't need to make a choice today and, in truth, own not one piece of wireless any more. But the choices are large and truly amazing. How much such good equipment would have helped me out of some tight spots years ago. D.

Gotta disagree Jeff. This is on-going and clearly advertising and marketing specifically NOT ALLOWED in these threads. Just my opinion of course, just like almost everything else on this blog. But I will probably speak out whenever it occurs. Oh and BTW, Larry's posts are much less blatant and do more serve to provide informantion and not so much to sell goods. Again, just my opinion. I'm outie. D.

I believe that in a Dante rig, no matter what is listed as the "Leader" clock, it is that device's Dante card that is providing the actual timer. Dante card clocks have been rock solid across the board in my experience. Not ALWAYS the case ("sync from external") but there is barely a need to do that that I can imagine. And even then, I believe the Dante clock re-clocks the device's sync anyway. I'd be interested in others' experience as well. D.

Come on man. Take the advertising to Manufacturers and Dealers. Bad behavior. D.

B&H "Regular Price"? $390. D.