Best 5.1 options

[Jeremy Childers]

Hi guys,

I have an editor I work with often, he wants to be able to playback 5.1 mixes, I suggested pro tools with dv toolkit, but he is looking for a cheaper solution, since it's only for playback. Any ideas, I know you can get pci cards for 5.1, but gave no experience with these...any ideas or experiences?

[Olle Sjostrom]

Is the problem economical and just missing the hardware or does he need both hardware and software? My fw400 external card (focusrite Saffire Le) has six outputs and should work with most programs. It's kinda cheap... Sounds and perform really well though.

(null)

[Jeremy Childers]

Is the problem economical and just missing the hardware or does he need both hardware and software? My fw400 external card (focusrite Saffire Le) has six outputs and should work with most programs. It's kinda cheap... Sounds and perform really well though.

Does it allow true 5.1(panning) the 003 has 8 direct outs, but without dv toolkit you only get L R panning. He runs Premiere Pro, so mostly looking at hardware, saw and checked out motu hs express last night, I think that could be an option. I ll check out the Saffire now as well, thanks

[VM]

Just for hearing and editing my 5.1 sounds I use Twisted Wave (very fast and powerful, batch fonction, AU and VST plug in, ...) and a little sound card that has 6 outputs. (TW has a master volume) TW do not erase the metadatas (tracks names, notes, ....).

[BrianW]

If he needs multitrack (ala ProTools) playback, the latest version of REAPER has 5.1 (and 7.1) panning built in. It's a free download & tons less $$ than PT if he chooses to buy it. He'll just need a sound card or interface with enough discreet outputs for all the channels, plus the speakers & amps of course.

[greg sextro]

You don't need a program that offers surround panning or anything like that really. All you need is a program that is multi-track, and an interface that offers at least 6 outputs. If your editor can assign any of the 6 tracks to each of the 6 individual outputs you will be good to go. Just make sure to label the tracks, and if your editor can't split a 6 track poly file, then send him/her 6 mono tracks, one for each channel.

[ccsnd]

didn't they add 5.1 and TC to protools 10 as a standard? If so, upgrade to PT10

[Olle Sjostrom]

didn't they add 5.1 and TC to protools 10 as a standard? If so, upgrade to PT10

Yup.

The Saffire LE has six outputs, and if I'm not mistaken, I think the outputs are labelled like L, C, R, Ls, Rs, LFE. Not that the outputs are fixed in that position, only to ease with connections methinks.

But...err It seems as though it's been discontinued :S There are other products though and not too spensive either

[Philip Perkins]

DVToolKit does not give you surround. PT10 native does not have surround panners etc, you need to buy the CompleteProduction ToolKit to get that ($2000), or move up to PTHD. To playback a 5.1 mix they only need to have an audio interface with 6 output channels for their system, a way of assigning the channels to specific tracks in their app, and a 5.1 sound system in their room. A monitor controller will make calibration and overall level controls much easier. The easiest cheapest way I've seen to do this is a BlueSky system.

phil p

[RScott]

Foobar2000 is a free music player application for PC that will playback multichannel wave tracks.

Reaper as mentioned is a great low-cost pro editor that will handle surround.

You can get a sound card or interface that has 6 outputs. A video card with HDMI out can output surround sound to a consumer amp for playback in a home theater situation. Reaper at least will mix with an HDMI output. I think Pro Tools may as well, though you will need 9 or newer to play without an interface.

[VASI]

Apollo High-Resolution Interface

Overview

Apollo® is the first professional, high-resolution computer audio interface that delivers the sound, feel, and flow of analog recording. This 18 x 24 FireWire/Thunderbolt™- ready interface combines genuine UA analog design with class-leading 24-bit/192 kHz sound quality and onboard Realtime UAD Processing. Using Apollo, music producers and performers can finally track audio through a range of classic UAD analog emulation plug-ins — from Neve, Studer, Manley, Lexicon and more — in real time, and with a sleek, elegant workflow on both Mac and PC.

Features

Class-Leading 24-bit/192 kHz Sound Quality

Designed to play a central role in a modern Mac- or PC-based studio, Apollo incorporates a true “no compromise” approach to audio quality. Building upon decades of UA’s analog hardware heritage, it offers extremely high-resolution sonics, with the lowest THD and highest dynamic range in its class. Apollo’s premium mic preamps, top-end converters — and UA’s meticulous attention to circuit design — translate into greater accuracy and depth in your recordings, from tracking and overdubbing, to mixing and mastering.

Realtime UAD Plug-In Processing for Tracking, Mixing and Mastering

While Apollo’s “natural” sound is exceedingly open and transparent, it can quickly deliver a wide range of classic analog tones and color via its Realtime UAD Processing. Available with either DUO Core or QUAD Core processing onboard, this onboard DSP Acceleration allows for recording and mixing through UAD Powered Plug-Ins — with as low as sub-2ms latency — so that producers can quickly monitor, audition, and “print” audio using classic analog emulations from Ampex, Lexicon, Manley, Neve, Roland, SSL, Studer, and more. Want to place multiple 1176 compressors on your drum inputs, or record vocals through a classic Neve 1073 EQ, or even track the entire band through a Studer A800 tape machine in real time? No problem. With Realtime UAD processing, Apollo’s sonic options are virtually endless.

Thunderbolt™ I/O: The Next Generation of Connectivity

Apollo offers compatibility with Intel’s new Thunderbolt technology, as found on the newest iMacs, MacBook Pros, MacBook Airs, and next-generation PCs.

Available via a user-installable dual-port Thunderbolt I/O Option Card (sold separately), Thunderbolt provides lower latency, reduced audio buffer size, improved performance, and greater UAD plug-in instances versus FireWire. And because Thunderbolt offers many times the bandwith of FireWire, it allows music producers to connect numerous devices in series with the Apollo interface — including hard drives, processors, and additional computer monitors — all with fast, flawless performance.

Deeper Integration with Pro Tools, Logic, Cubase and more

Apollo’s Core Audio and ASIO* drivers ensure compatibility with all major DAWs, including Pro Tools, Logic Pro, Cubase, Live, and more. Beyond this basic compatibility, Apollo’s included Console application and companion Console Recall plug-in (VST/AU/RTAS) provide control and recall of all interface and UAD plug-in settings within individual DAW sessions, even months and years later.

Elegant Hardware Design and Workflow

One key feature of Apollo isn’t really a “feature” at all. It’s the numerous design details that give you a fast, natural workflow — and better results. There are physical front-panel controls for all the most commonly used features, including Preamp and Monitor level knobs, channel selection, mic pad and low cut, phantom power, and even dual headphone outs with independent level control. Smart Hi-Z inputs on the front panel detect when you've connected your guitar or bass, and automatically enable hardware and software monitoring.

Sonically, Apollo's Mic inputs and Monitor outputs are digitally controlled analog, so you don't lose audio resolution when you adjust gain. High-resolution/high-contrast metering, derived from UA’s legendary 2192 interface, is designed to be viewable at nearly any angle. Finally, standalone operation means that you can use Apollo’s audio connections, and last-used DSP mixer settings, even without a computer connected.

http://www.uaudio.com/apollo

[Marc Wielage]

I'm sure the Universal Audio "Apollo" sounds great, but I suspect it won't be the low-cost interface that Soundmatters' editor was looking for. I believe this one is about $2000 list.

[VASI]

Yeap. The Apollo is high-cost interface.

But we can 7.1

[Tom Visser]

I use an Alesis MasterControl at home which has an A, B, C, stereo monitor controller. It has a cool feature which allows all 6 outputs to be ganged together for 5.1 monitor levels. I may be a little bit more than necessary, with 9 motorized faders (only 8 accessible via Pro Tools HUI), transport / scrub controls, and typical Firewire interface I/O, but they have been discontinued and can be found used for fairly cheap.

[Tim M]

So I'm assuming what you are saying Reaper can do is:

1) Import multi .wav files and split it into seperate tracks automatically.

2) Those individual tracks can be assigned to different outputs assuming you have compatible hardware like the Saffire etc.

3) When the film is imported/.mov etc if they were synced up in Pro Tools then they should be able to sync in Reaper? /Does it reference timecode automatically for the editor? Or would the editor have to link up the film in either final cut or avid etc and then import the film as a whole into Reaper?

4)How would he calibrate his system with the standard of what 85db/how would you know he did? The only issue I see with this is if this is screening for the editor/director it may not be calibrated correctly and can cause quite the frustration to the sound supervisor or whoever from complaints of not hearing correctly or too loudly all that BS kind of stuff.

[sdog]

So I'm assuming what you are saying Reaper can do is:

1. Not automatic on import, but very easy: "Item processing -> explode multichannel audio to new 1 channel items"

2. yes. Pretty straightforward.

3. If you're just reading an already mixed 5.1 project, you won't have much problem syncing just one point (probably 00:00:00:00), but if you are reading full projects with multiple media files at multiple sync points, you'll probably want to use a helper app like AATranslator to bounce between Reaper files and OMFs (or several other formats)

4. I think the calibration issues are going to be much the same no matter which software playback component is used.

I think an audio engineer could do most of this with their eyes closed, but I agree that there could be issues if you just toss the app at a picture editor and say, "Here you go. Have at it." (to my picture editor friends who are reading this, I'm not saying you're stupid! Really, I'm not! You should stay away from audio software for the same reasons I stay away from video editing software).

[Ashok Vardhan]

Looking to buy this interface soon, I had experience with the RME Fireface 800, which is a really strong contendor to beat, however, reviews and experiences of the UAD Apollo have been very favourable.