Red Scarlet timecode input

[chrisnewton]

Starting a project with Red Scarlet next month. Plannng to use Ambient clockit for camera. red store has adaptor cable with 3 BNCs and a (what appears to be) 4 pin Lemo. Anybody have any sources for a 5pin Lemo to 4 pin Lemo cable to connect clockit to Scarlet, or is this a custom part? don't need GPI trigger/ genclock on this project. Any experience with the Red branded cable?

Chris Newton

[soundslikejustin]

Depending on where the camera is being sourced from, you should be provided with the 4-pin Mini Lemo to BNC tails. Then just use either a BNC to BNC cable and a gender change connector from your Ambient Box. Or a Lemo 5 to BNC if you use the Lemo out.

If you want a single cable, you'll have to make it or buy it.

I've used the RED Lemo to BNC tails (just didn't connect the Genlock or Wordclock) and it worked fine.

[Philip Perkins]

Lots of people buying into Epic and Scarlet around here now, so I just bought the 4 pin Lemo to BNC fan cable from RED. Lemos are a pain to solder, and expensive to boot.

phil p

[chrisnewton]

thanks. that's what I figured.

chris

[johnpaul215]

RED took about 2 weeks to get me the "in stock" triple cable adapter thing.

I contacted one of the usual suspect location sound dealers and had them make me a nice clean single BNC-LEMO4 so I could feed the RED from a SB-3 sync box and had the custom cable in 2 days. I now have both, but I think camera department prefers the custom one.

[ChrisH]

Lol it should be cameras job(and their budget to rent) to provide this cable. This is something you should have and bring so look good, but just so we train the producers and dps to properly rent their kit. So on camera test day they ask for a jam and you say "where's your jam cable?" you say this might work it that should be part of your camera rental. They order new cable on cameras budget, that way when the acs break that cable you have a backup, you save the day and none of the sound budget is wasted on camera accessories.

[Jim Gilchrist]

Lol it should be cameras job(and their budget to rent) to provide this cable. This is something you should have and bring so look good, but just so we train the producers and dps to properly rent their kit. So on camera test day they ask for a jam and you say "where's your jam cable?" you say this might work it that should be part of your camera rental. They order new cable on cameras budget, that way when the acs break that cable you have a backup, you save the day and none of the sound budget is wasted on camera accessories.

Camera test day? Do you live in the bizarro production world?

I have been invited to exactly one camera check-out in the 28 years I've been freelancing and it was a film for a product that sold for $36 million each in a stripped down version. And that was simply because the show needed to use the Arri SR3's Arricode capability, a 3 camera job, the SR3 was a new product and the job was sync-sound heavy. On the average Epic or Scarlet doc/commercial/industrial one or two day gig good luck on getting a check-out day. Just sayin'....

I'd spend the $100 or so for the cable, bill something for it, be a hero and save the heartache. And get invited back as the guy who fixes problems instead of causing them.

Best regards,

Jim

[Marc Wielage]

I contacted one of the usual suspect location sound dealers and had them make me a nice clean single BNC-LEMO4 so I could feed the RED from a SB-3 sync box and had the custom cable in 2 days. I now have both, but I think camera department prefers the custom one.

Wilcox in Burbank made me one, and it was the precise perfect length... and they did it with red cable, which thrilled the camera department. Seriously, the AC told me, "wow, that looks great and works perfectly!" And much more reasonably-priced than what Red is selling direct.

[RadoStefanov]

The cable is fairly easy to make but the Lemo cost $40

[RadoStefanov]

Mark,

Perfect length?

Says who?

[Marc Wielage]

Fit perfectly on the side of the camera, with the SB-T velcroed, just the right amount of overhang -- not too tight, not too loose. I was impressed, and the AC was impressed.

[RadoStefanov]

ERX1TCD. Amazing little device.

1st day Red epic and this thing kept slate and cameras in sync.

Battery life is great.

I was able to send both TC and scratch from a custom cable that I made.

[Boomboom]

Rado, would you give the pin order you actually have on that cable (1/8'' ERX to lemo & 1/8'' RED) I'd go straight to "what works" instead of speculations to make one... ;-)

Thanks !

[RadoStefanov]

On tip on erx1tcd side~> mono unbalanced tip red input,

On ring on erx1tcd side~> pin 3 lemo Tc red

Sleeve on erx1tcd side~> ground sleeve on 3.5 red input, ground pin 1 lemo plug

MAKE SURE THE LEMO GROUND ONLY TOUCHES PIN 1 !!!!!!!

If you wire it like zaxcom xmitter "ground to pin 1 and lemo body" it would not work.

Sent from my HD7 T9292 using Board Express

[chrisnewton]

just a follow up: camera rental company had TC cables made up for upcoming job - lemo 5 pin to lemo 4 pin. RED branded cable with BNC breakout on backorder. I did a camera test with first AC this week and all is good. small cables very nicely made. Note: timecode menu changes from earlier RED units don't show the "linked chain" symbol when TC locked. Ambient lockit fits well on rails at rear of camera, along with G2 RX. rental house also has Wooden Camera XLR-mini box. i tested my Senn G2 with this system (for editor guidetrack only) sounds OK from headphone jack (with annoying delay/ sounds-like-we're-down-a well signal), haven't heard playback of files on Mac yet. note: I set my G2 RX at 0db output into Scarlet input level labelled as 8 (don't know what this # refers to), but seems that G2 full-on output is roughly about -10 line level and unattenuated Scarlet input seems to play very nicely with this level. Audio menu set to unbalanced input. Show starts Sunday for three week bloc. will update from the trenches. Chris Newton

[RadoStefanov]

Make sure the cameras are in sync when you put the Lockit.

1 of 2 cameras needed to be restarted to start receiving external TC.

[John Blankenship]

Make sure the cameras are in sync when you put the Lockit.

1 of 2 cameras needed to be restarted to start receiving external TC.

That's been a "sometimes it happens; sometimes it doesn't" Red thing since even the One came out.

[chrisnewton]

OK Rado. I'll advise the first AC.

[chrisnewton]

just finished first 2 days with Scarlet. No problems whatsoever with timecode. On-cam audio guide track however.. everything looked OK, tone lined up, E-to-E checked out on headphones, DIT showed up and said first two scenes on card had no sound, third scene had sound, but was about 2 seconds out of sync! whaaaa... checked all menus, didn't change any settings, all OK subsequently. bad JuJu I guess. the (very competent) AC couldn't find the mythical "master output volume" setting in menu, individual monitor outputs were enabled and up full. he's checking RED USER group tonight. new firmware? anyway, several camera crashes today. very mysterium all told. Stay calm and carry on.

[Marc Wielage]

"Very mysterium!" Good one.

[chrisnewton]

More from today: Scarlet fan control works well. We shot in a restaurant washroom, 2 actresses at the mirror. RED cam in the room. For the first time the cameras fan was audible in record mode. Perfectly usable audio in a very small hard walled room. Fan menu was set to "auto", which cuts fan speed when cam rolls. For shits-n-giggles, the first AC set fan speed to manual and slowed it down to about 40% of auto level (an educated guess on his part). Noise was reduced, but not really substantially. However, heat sensor (chip temp.?) rose considerably during the take. Not worth risking a shutdown in my opinion.

Guidetrack audio to Scarlet (via Senn. G2) seems to be working OK. No complaints from DIT.

Still no playback audio on headphone jack, only E to E. Going to check HD monitor tomorrow to see if playback audio works through SDI. I've checked audio E to E on monitor, but it was way too hot a signal coming out of the camera. Maybe reducing output level in menu? Will report.

Loving the Beta testing for the RED people. So much more fun out in the field. Makes my day so much more interesting.

Chris

[Audio Daddyo]

I was on Scarlet shoot today and the DP/Scartlet owner had in advance told me that he knew how to set the camera to accept external timecode from my 744t. Well he didn't and I couldn't get the Scarlet to except my 744t timecode. I couldn't fine any useful info in the manual. I have the proper timecode cable which is a 4 pin lemo to a bnc. In the camera's menu there is a place to choose external timecode but that didn't seem to work. I tried rebooting and that didn't work. Both the camera and 744t were set to 23.976. I am coming out of my 744t using a lemo to XLR cable and that cable is going into a xlr to bnc adapter which is connected to the bnc to lemo cable which then goes into the camera. I also tried using my SB-T box and that didn't work either. Can someone give me a step by step how-to to properly set up the camera to except external timecode.

Thanks,

Andy

[Marc Wielage]

Same menu as the Epic, as far as I know.

https://www.red.com/...t/all/downloads

A previous discussion covered the Epic, and I believe the setup is identical:

I'd personally be suspicious about using a lot of adapters with cables. My experience is that the tolerances on adapters is sometimes kind of loose, and a dedicated cable that goes directly from point A to point B is going to be a lot more reliable. In this case, I think you really have to use an SB-T, SB-3, or Ambient lockit on the camera and jam it from your 744t. I'm not convinced you can just momentarily jam the camera and have it reliably work all day. That means using a customized cable, but it's not that hard to wire up; in the case of a Lemo source, it'd be a special 5-pin Lemo output to 4-pin Lemo input cable. If it were a BNC source, BNC out to 4-pin Lemo input cable. (Don't get me started as to why Red changed to 4-pin Lemos.)

I do agree that the Red company should do a "step 1, step 2, step 3" guide. I casually know one of the tech people over there and will suggest this tonight.

[RadoStefanov]

I was on Scarlet shoot today and the DP/Scartlet owner had in advance told me that he knew how to set the camera to accept external timecode from my 744t. Well he didn't and I couldn't get the Scarlet to except my 744t timecode. I couldn't fine any useful info in the manual. I have the proper timecode cable which is a 4 pin lemo to a bnc. In the camera's menu there is a place to choose external timecode but that didn't seem to work. I tried rebooting and that didn't work. Both the camera and 744t were set to 23.976. I am coming out of my 744t using a lemo to XLR cable and that cable is going into a xlr to bnc adapter which is connected to the bnc to lemo cable which then goes into the camera. I also tried using my SB-T box and that didn't work either. Can someone give me a step by step how-to to properly set up the camera to except external timecode.

Thanks,

Andy

Did you here the TC bleeding in the camera? I don't know about scarlet but Red Epics TC bleeds?

Did you make the cable?

Did you test it with a multimeter?

[Audio Daddyo]

Hi Marc, Not sure if I really have any more info than I did yesterday but I will give it another try.

I am trying to feed the Scarlet from my 744t with continuous time code not momentarily Jam it. As I mentioned previously I did try to use my SB-T box but that didn't work either. To have one cable from point A to B would mean a 25 foot 5 pin lemo to a 4 pin lemo cable. Doesn't really make sense to have that cable. I like to have my cables set up so I can use an xlr to xlr extension cable to get to my 774t to what ever camera I am feeding timecode. To make this work I am only using one adapter connector which is an XLR to BNC adapter and 3 adapter cables. The adapter cables shouldn't be a problem. Possibly the BNC to XLR adapter connector could be a weak link but I have used this adapter with other non red camera timecode cable runs and never had a problem.

Rado, the Lemo adapter cables I am using were made by Gotham Sound. I will do a continuity check tomorrow. Looks like pin 3 on the 4pin lemo carries the timecode. Right? That is if I can figure out which pin is pin 3.

If anybody else has any more step by step info I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks Marc for being willing to contact your Red acquaintance. Please let me know if he gets back to you. I tried to call RED yesterday but was unable to get through to a tech. Yes I agree why the F*** did they go with a 4 pin lemo.

On a side note the headphone amp is crap and the return levels are the worse of any camera I've ever used and yes I had the audio out on the menu turned up all the way. The fan noise was a problem when doing sit down interviews. The camera fan was set to go into the lowest speed when in record mode. After 10 minutes of running the camera it started to over heat and the fan went to full speed. We had to wait to let it cool down. We then use ice packs to keep it cool. When the camera wasn't close to the action we raised the fan speed and that seem to keep it cool enough.

Thanks,

Andy