Red Scarlet timecode input

[John Blankenship]

Here are two comments from the JWS archives that were posted early last year that may (or may not) relate to the current discussion:

Glenn Sanders (of Zaxcom):

"On a separate topic the problem with Red camera not booting with a time code input has been identified. It seems as if the internal electronics of the Red camera has a reset issue if the TC fed to the camera is too hot, I.E greater than about 1VPP. The output of the ERX1TCD is software adjustable and this is not a problem for us."

Charlie Parra (of Denecke):

"I just want to clarify that the RED lock ups are caused be a high level TC signal at its input. There are a few SB-2 that have 2.5v TC output which is too high for the RED. The SB-3 does not have this issue as well as the majority of the SB-2 boxes that are out there."

NOTE: SB-2 boxes that have the higher output can be easily modified for the newer (lower) voltage. It can easily be done by anyone handy with simple soldering, or modified by Denecke. I've slept many times since I modified one of my SB2a boxes (the other already had the lower voltage), but IIRC it was just the addition of a 1K resistor, or something as simple as that. There may be more information about this in the archives for someone motivated to do further searching.

[mikewest]

Do we actually know what time-code level the Scarlet wants?

mike

[Zack]

1v..... Just finished a feature jamming TC to Epic & Scarlet. They both received 1v.

[Doug Beatty]

+1 Zack- I am mixing a pilot and 1v was enough for Scarlet.

[Jason A]

This is good to know. I sent scratch and TC via ERXTCD yesterday and had success with both although there was slight TC bleed into the scratch track. I was running at 2v though. Hopefully dropping to 1v will eliminate the bleed.

+1 Zack- I am mixing a pilot and 1v was enough for Scarlet.

[John Blankenship]

On the Epic, there are the small letters "TC" in the lower part of the screen (toward the center). If they're not there, you're not getting external time code. If they are red, it means that external time code is coming in but you're not synced to it. If they're green, you're good to go -- you have incoming code and the Epic is jamming to it.

[Marc Wielage]

That's funny that on a Red camera red is bad but green is good!

[RadoStefanov]

That's funny that on a Red camera red is bad but green is good!

This is the fumiest thing I have heard lately.

[Marc Wielage]

BTW, just did my second Scarlet shoot, and sound and timecode were perfect. (At the end, the DP took me aside and said, "I have to say, we have fewer problems with you as a sound mixer than I've ever had with anybody else!" I told her, "I'll work on that!")

[Zack]

BTW, just did my second Scarlet shoot, and sound and timecode were perfect. (At the end, the DP took me aside and said, "I have to say, we have fewer problems with you as a sound mixer than I've ever had with anybody else!" I told her, "I'll work on that!")

My second time working with a Epic + Scarlet combo, sending mix + TC (1v) to both via Zaxnet. Epic = Cam A (QRX with mix and TC), then Scarlet = Cam B (ERX1TC with mix and TC), all jammed wireless from Fusion TC gen via TRX900aa. I actually got a little quick video of it showing the Fusion (in bag) wirelessly jamming and sending mix to both cameras. Absolutely loving this workflow.

[Matt Martin]

Sorry if the graph is not very clear. Too late too tired.

Just wanted to confirm with you folks before I waste time painfully soldering up this 4 pin Lemo. I want to "measure twice cut once" so to speak.

In looking at the diagram in the Red Manual (that Rado posted above) it seems to be that the diagram is looking INTO the jack on the camera, so therefore the pins of the Lemo plug (looking at the front, not solder side) would need to be the mirror image (so pin 1, lines up with pin 1 and not 4). However, Rado's photograph looking at the front of his Lemo, seems to NOT be a mirror image. In my mind, the diagrams contradict, but I am probably looking at it wrong.

Can anyone help put me at ease with confirmation of which pin is which? I definitely don't want to move forward until I am 100% sure.

[RadoStefanov]

Both diagrams are from the front.

Just follow mine///

[Matt Martin]

Isn't the drawn RED diagram a view of the front of the female socket on the camera though? It says "Figure 22: View into camera SYNC (Video Sync) interface connector"

So looking at the front of the Male plug like your picture, shouldn't it be reversed so they line up 1 to 1 when inserted?

Sorry if I am being dense.

[Vincent R.]

I just finished a shoot today with a Scarlett. 744 to lockit and all went well. Though, AC connected the lockit first to a home made device from the rental company before going into the Red. He couldn't tell me what the box did, only that it is needed with the lockit. His words. You guys now anything about that? Maybe a signal reducer of some sort? Pic doesn't tell;

[S Harber]

So here's another pinout from the Scarlet manual that has the lemo pinouts flipped with the exact same verbage as on the diagram Rado posted.

Horrible.

How does a company show 2 different pinout schematics for a non-standard timecode pinout ?

So I'm wiring up a connector here with no place to test it other than a meter and, guess what?, no other piece of gear on the planet uses this connector for timecode !

Example #1 from the manual I downloaded today.

Example #2 below was posted by Rado. 180 out of registration from the version in the published Scarlet manual.

[Marc Wielage]

I just finished a shoot today with a Scarlett. 744 to lockit and all went well. Though, AC connected the lockit first to a home made device from the rental company before going into the Red. He couldn't tell me what the box did, only that it is needed with the lockit. His words. You guys now anything about that? Maybe a signal reducer of some sort?

Quite a few Red camera owners use a Wooden Camera adapter or something like it just to provide an easier way to get audio and TC signals in and out of the camera, as well as provide an easier output signal. It has nothing to do with changing levels; it merely provides a breakout to industry-standard connectors:

[Alexander Burstein]

Quite a few Red camera owners use a Wooden Camera adapter or something like it just to provide an easier way to get audio and TC signals in and out of the camera, as well as provide an easier output signal. It has nothing to do with changing levels; it merely provides a breakout to industry-standard connectors:

Just finished 4 days with a Red Epic and the camera department had this Wooden Camera attached the entire time. The 1st AC insist that I plug the 4 pin from the B-Box back into the camera after externally jamming with timecode. I routinely checked on camera and it held sync even after a few hours of the camera shutting down. There was no lockit attached. I was surprised the camera held sync given all of the problems I've heard.

[Marc Wielage]

Talk to the editor and find out how well the picture timecode held in relation to sound.

[Alexander Burstein]

Will do. Is there ever a drift from the timecode generator and a jammed timecode slate?

[Marc Wielage]

Will do. Is there ever a drift from the timecode generator and a jammed timecode slate?

Well... it depends!

My experience is that if the slates are well-aligned and not powered off, they can hold a jam for at least 7 or 8 hours. I've had them go for 12 hours with no problem on occasion, but I'm usually superstitious enough that I'll rejam after the first meal break, maybe 5-6 hours in. A 1-frame offset is not unusual; for a longterm project, I'd probably ask for a camera test prior to the first shoot day and come up with an exact match for sound, timecode, and camera in case an offset was needed.

I just had an editor complain about some timecode issues between camera and sound, and I asked him to check the slates and get back to me if the slates were ever different from sound. I also explained that we're at the mercy of the camera department to remember to rejam the camera to the timecode lock box -- and it's their job to do so. He agreed that it was really a camera issue, and luckily, only a handful of takes were affected. Camera assistants have to understand that timecode is important to everybody, and it's not a nuisance if you just pay attention. It takes 1 second to look at the viewfinder and the slate and say, "whoops! They're four hours different!"

[Alexander Burstein]

I messaged the editor and haven't gotten a response which happens quite often for some reason. Either it went problem free, they're too busy, or angry with me because it wasn't done correctly. Joking- but seriously...

I spoke to a DIT in length about timecode today at Paradise FX and he had some interesting things to say. He said that even if timecode drifts a bit on the camera, even up to a few seconds, don't worry about it. It ends up being close enough to the timecode stamp on the audio that they can sync it up without problems.

On the Epic specifically (I don't know about other cameras or other red models) look for the greyed out TC and SYNC on the bottom of the display on camera and look for it to light up when you jam externally. And he says if the light goes away, but to your eye it looks like the TC is in sync, then it's fine.

Another topic that came up was the responsibility of timecode for the sound department. I agree with him, but as stated in another thread about offspeed shots and battery swaps, if the camera needs to be rejammed it can't be the sound departments responsibility. Someone from camera needs to take care of rejamming in these situations. Although sometimes it doesn't happen. Unfortunately we get blamed at the end of the day and the only way to prevent it is to keep an eye on the camera as often as we're able to. And make sure to jam the camera at the start of the day and after the first meal as Marc said.

The DIT wasn't surprised that the Epic held sync even a few hours after being turned off. Now if I turned off the timecode generator at any point and didn't rejam the camera or slate, then I'd be in trouble. Luckily that wasn't the case.

[jrd456]

Alex,

Youu don't want the timecode to drift.He didn't say it could drift a couple of seconds and it would be cool,it's not.They of course can sync it,but you won't be hired for the next job.

J.D.

[Alexander Burstein]

When I spoke to him privately with the worries of my earlier example of having the camera off for a few hours though, that's what he responded with.

Drifting timecode isn't acceptable though I know. Even if it can be salvaged.

[studiomprd]

" Drifting timecode isn't acceptable though I know. "

yes, but I have an "it depends"...

sometimes devices (cameras) have a lower resolution clock running when they are off, and when repowered, the TC has drifted, but the clock is now the accurate clock and not drifting, therefore there was an ofset created during the off period. the running TC is not drifting...

just a possible gotcha'...

[Marc Wielage]

I spoke to a DIT in length about timecode today at Paradise FX and he had some interesting things to say. He said that even if timecode drifts a bit on the camera, even up to a few seconds, don't worry about it. It ends up being close enough to the timecode stamp on the audio that they can sync it up without problems.

They can, but I have had producers become terribly upset at even the concept that camera timecode and sound timecode were a few frames off. One began sputtering that this would "cost them hours of extra time in editing," and I couldn't stop myself from laughing and said, "I synced up timecode dailies at Technicolor for over 20 years, and it takes less than 1 minute per take. 100 takes, 100 minutes -- half that if you're fast. It's an assistant editor's job, and they have to check the head of every take anyway." He calmed down... and has actually hired me for quite a few sound mixing jobs since. I think he understood I wasn't giving him an excuse -- I was giving him a cause and a solution.

Another topic that came up was the responsibility of timecode for the sound department. I agree with him, but as stated in another thread about offspeed shots and battery swaps, if the camera needs to be rejammed it can't be the sound departments responsibility.

That's correct. But it never hurts to keep a wary eye on the set monitor and the slate. And be sure to re-jam after the first meal or 6 hours, whichever comes first. The camera department is generally concerned with about 376 things other than timecode. Get to know the 1st AC and make sure the TC jam box is OK, especially after speed changes and reboots.