ChrisH Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 So lectrosonics I know you are about to release the WM. thanks I will take two 26's and two 21's. What's the next new piece of gear? My vote is for a big brother for the 788t, 71616t? It would be cool if it was cart format, perhaps the recorder is built into a control surface, all the features of the cl9 built in but for 16 channels. What do you guys think? Sound devices do you have any comments or ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afewmoreyears Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Yeah, wrong company... Did you mix them up with SD?....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Timan Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 I tried unsuccessfully to talk Mr. Tatooles into this idea a few years back. I also like the idea of eliminating the need for a recorder in a separate box on the cart (and all interconnects, power, etc). Now that the recording technology is tiny, putting it in the mixing panel would be a great way to lighten up/simplify a cart setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisH Posted February 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Yeah, wrong company... Did you mix them up with SD?....... Oops yeah fixed that. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 I tried unsuccessfully to talk Mr. Tatooles into this idea a few years back. I also like the idea of eliminating the need for a recorder in a separate box on the cart (and all interconnects, power, etc). Now that the recording technology is tiny, putting it in the mixing panel would be a great way to lighten up/simplify a cart setup. Didn't Sonosax do that already with their big mixer? I am surprised with all this talk about how Sound Devices should make a cart based mixer/recorder --- aren't there a lot of people already using the 788T on a cart? I get a little bit of a different view of this because the majority of mixers I know use a Deva on the cart, either with a full digital mixing panel (like the Yamaha), a hardware interface (MIX-12 or MIX-, or an analog board (usually a Cooper, Sonosax or Solice). I think the same thing can be done with a 788T with the add-ons that Sound Devices provides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisH Posted February 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 I tried unsuccessfully to talk Mr. Tatooles into this idea a few years back. I also like the idea of eliminating the need for a recorder in a separate box on the cart (and all interconnects, power, etc). Now that the recording technology is tiny, putting it in the mixing panel would be a great way to lighten up/simplify a cart setup. +1 Yes exactly! Combining recorder and mix panel reduces space, also we could have regular xlr inputs for all 16 inputs, since it would targeted for cart use it no longer need's to be a tiny bag foot print. Make it the size of the top of the PSC cart. Also give me meters on the faders, a plug for illumination and a separate slate/tb mic in put. Could also make it modular so you can string them together for 32 or 64 tracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus Wedin Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 I think fusing mixer and recorder is something Sound Devices should be looking at for their whole product line, both for bag- and cart-users. And not just simpel stereo recorders, but true iso-tracks. The Nomad is definitely a step in the right direction. Good job Zaxcom! I hope Sound Devices steps up to the challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisH Posted February 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Didn't Sonosax do that already with their big mixer? I am surprised with all this talk about how Sound Devices should make a cart based mixer/recorder --- aren't there a lot of people already using the 788T on a cart? I get a little bit of a different view of this because the majority of mixers I know use a Deva on the cart, either with a full digital mixing panel (like the Yamaha), a hardware interface (MIX-12 or MIX-, or an analog board (usually a Cooper, Sonosax or Solice). I think the same thing can be done with a 788T with the add-ons that Sound Devices provides. Yes, and yes lots of people use 788t on cart but SD doesn't make a competition to the deva16. you can chain two 788ts together but less cables is better. A larger format SD would allow them to ditch the ta3 inputs for regular xlr inputs. Also the nomad although it might be buggy in its early stages is a step in the right direction. The 552 is great but has no ISOs, and only 5 channels. I'd love to see a 12 or 16 channel mix panel with two 788ts underneath it except all one unit so all you have to do is plug some mics in and give it power. This in combination with wireless receivers like the rx4900 the venue or the octopak and an iLife would make an incredibly compact light cart, with more channels than most people have on their cart. I just love the idea of the an integrated mixer recorder. And honestly I just love sound devices and would love them to come out with some new stuff just to satisfy my gear lust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Recorder 12 channels with TA3F connectors. Don't be a digital (on the screen) peak meters. The LED peak meters from SD 788T is ok (for me). OLED (based from Audio Ltd) screen. NOT BE A TOUCH SCREEN. More stability when recording. Support 192kHz and 32bit. 500GB SSD And I'm big fan from Zaxcom Network. Yeah. I know. I'm dreaming. Haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound Grab Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 All I can see happening this year is perhaps a refresh of the 302 in the mixer line, and a PIX 260. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomboom Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Why not something more like a "SD Cantar" with faders ? ... But half the price! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Why not something more like a "SD Cantar" with faders ? ... But half the price! The Cantar has faders but they are rotary. Cantar also has a linear fader add-on (like Deva has MIX-8 and SD has CL-9), and how French would you want Sound Devices to be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 The rotary faders control the input to ISO trks. The on-board 6 fader panel controls the mix to 1/2 trks. The Cantarem is an 8 fader (1 lb, no separate power needed) "console" with assignable (input/mix/line-out/etc) faders that can co-exist/override the on-board faders. The (always-updated-with every firmware/feature upgrade) manual is in English (apart from other languages), and almost everyone you need to have direct interaction with at Aaton speak impeccable English. The price - well, there MAY be something up their sleeves too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfisk Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Just to play devil's advocate here (and I don't have a pony in this race, and nobody tells me anything so I don't have any "inside information")....If you have a mixer with a recorder built in, what happens if the mixer goes down? Now your recorder is out of commission. What happens if your recorder goes down? If you don't have separate outputs to be able to run to something else then your mixer is useless. If the recorder section of the mixing panel can't come out of the mixer, then you have to send the whole thing in if you have a recorder repair. What if you have a job and you only need a small recorder? Now you have to buy another recorder. When I was working in production (for a limited amount of time), I preferred to segregate my gear in such a way that if one piece went down I could easily swap it out with a backup. This is also why I never bought one of those "tv/vcr combination" sets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 dfisk - you are a good devil.... advocate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisH Posted February 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Just to play devil's advocate here (and I don't have a pony in this race, and nobody tells me anything so I don't have any "inside information")....If you have a mixer with a recorder built in, what happens if the mixer goes down? Now your recorder is out of commission. What happens if your recorder goes down? If you don't have separate outputs to be able to run to something else then your mixer is useless. If the recorder section of the mixing panel can't come out of the mixer, then you have to send the whole thing in if you have a recorder repair. What if you have a job and you only need a small recorder? Now you have to buy another recorder. When I was working in production (for a limited amount of time), I preferred to segregate my gear in such a way that if one piece went down I could easily swap it out with a backup. This is also why I never bought one of those "tv/vcr combination" sets. Hey David I partially agree with you, however at this price point most people have some sort of back up gear. Say this sells to the guys who built their cart around the 788t, then they would probably have their 788t cl9 sitting on the trailer if this piece goes down. As far as a job that only requires a small recorder and mixer, the whole point of this post is for SD to break out of the super compact 7 series cases, tools for the job. In this case this device would be designed only for cart use. You don't see too many 8 channel coopers in bag rigs. My plan is to get a 6 channel nomad and then eventually a deva or a 788t for a cart rig, the nomad will be the heart of the cart until I get a second recorder. Then the light compact nomad becomes my backup or car rig recorder. The reason I thought of this post is because upgrading from the nomad6 to the 788t is not much of an upgrade, especially because I could just upgrade the nomad to 12 channels if I wanted to anyway making it have more power than the 788t. Finally this just seems the logical step for cart based production. As I said before many of our tools the meon the rx4900 the venue, the octopak all fit in a rack space and are very light and compact, it seems this device would play well with this setup and help us make our carts lighter and smaller.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus Wedin Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Just to play devil's advocate here (and I don't have a pony in this race, and nobody tells me anything so I don't have any "inside information")....If you have a mixer with a recorder built in, what happens if the mixer goes down? Now your recorder is out of commission. What happens if your recorder goes down? If you don't have separate outputs to be able to run to something else then your mixer is useless. If the recorder section of the mixing panel can't come out of the mixer, then you have to send the whole thing in if you have a recorder repair. What if you have a job and you only need a small recorder? Now you have to buy another recorder. When I was working in production (for a limited amount of time), I preferred to segregate my gear in such a way that if one piece went down I could easily swap it out with a backup. This is also why I never bought one of those "tv/vcr combination" sets. Well, having a separate recorder and mixer, wouldn't you also have to have both a backup recorder and a backup mixer to be safe? If you have a mixer/recorder combo you would only need another singel mixer/recorder unit as backup. I'm looking at this mainly from the "Bag"-side of things, where weight and size are big issues. Also having less cables connecting the gear means less breaking points. I would love SD to pimp up the 302. Add 1 channel, 4 channel AES outs and 4 Track isos. The 404. I'd be a first day buyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afewmoreyears Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 I am looking to get a new cart based recorder soon, but, all my work is ISO and mix track... that being said, as long as I can simply push one button to QUICKLY arm and un-arm tracks, I am happy.....The directors I work with regularly pop people in and out like the wind, and we find out about one second before rolling... Many of my options seem to be menu based multi push options..... That does NOT make me happy.... 788T with the CL-8 allows a quick button push I believe.., but I am a 01V96 user....and a happy one...EDIT I have had answered my main "question" about arming and un-arming the 788 tracks just now.... by turning the fader down to OFF you essentially dis arm the track.... AWESOME!!! Good news for me, 788 is back in the race and in first place as of now... Nomad, with it's (I believe) multi push buttons and it's too small of a screen (for me...) (cart based) and still not feeling too good about it... all things considered... as of NOW...Fusion maybe, I do like it... but again, not feeling too good about it... I am not interested at all in the Cantar or other Devas either.... The constant drumbeat of Zax "issues" has me running scared... It's just the way it is... I want so hard to believe.... but just don't... I feel bad for me and them, I know they do try really hard there... and they have MANY happy customers.. I bet as always, the internet plays a huge part in ruining my perception because 10 people log on to say how happy they are and two hundred with a gripe.... same on the Jeep or motorcycle forums.... or anything really... but when it comes to MY being without my machine while at work, and then needing to ship it away to the East coast... not good.. it really scares me.... and yes, I have back ups... but not 6 or 8 tracks... (I am about to though..) I am not much interested in "Smaller".... to a point... and agree with liking seperate machines for the CART... for hot swap of either.... Strange and uncomfortable place to be even with all the present options.... I feel like Papa bear.... none of the Porridge is quite right for ME.... I think he said something that.... I have heard of NOTHING NEW in the works at SD, and most likely, nobody will hear of anything till it happens.... I asked.... zippered lips there.... that's how it goes... maybe NAB? who knows... And if it is announced it will be Months, or a year or more until it's out.... Unless of course they wait until it is COMPLETED and tested BEFORE announcing the unit.... You never know.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Now that Sound Devices has their feet firmly planted in the video product market, they can finally realize my dream for a "Mystery Science Theater 3000" SDI signal generator. It would basically superimpose the MST3K silhouette onto any SDI or HD-SDI feed to the monitor, triggered by a "push to talk" button allowing any random crew member to come up and ad lib their own version of the scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomboom Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Well, I was just saying... The idea being a bag mixer with linear faders. I don't get the French part though... :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 I think that given SD hasn't committed to a touch screen, the jump to a slightly bigger CL-9 with the functionality of a 788T seems like it would't be that hard. But honestly, if it ain't broke... They have a strong foothold in the "portable" market, although many of us have their recorders on our carts and at least one of their other non-recording products around for other purposes. It doesn't make a lot of sense to introduce something on the "bigger" side, unless it is some improved version of the CL-9, which I think was not very well thought out. If you want a big track count with the smallest footprint, and lots of bells and whistles, then Fusion12 and Mix12 seem like a winning combo. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 I toyed around recently with the idea of trying to use a Behringer mixer that had 60mm faders for budget cart use. I ended up abandoning the project, because the fader throw at 60mm was less precise and "good" feeling than a 552 style rotary fader. I think for linear faders, in my opinion, to be of any benefit, they must be 83mm (P&G Cooper style) or better yet, 100/110mm units. I did some design mockups of bag mixers that use linear faders at 45mm, that remained compact, but after my Behringer experience, feel that such short throw units would never be useful for anything but to set rough IFB mixes, and at that point, why waste the real estate and expense of going linear versus pot? I like the idea of a cart dedicated, panel mixer / recorder (and computer interface). At that point, your really talking about the new Yamaha O1V96i at $2400, call it $4000 once you add a Mac Mini and any I/O card that you might need. I really hate using Yamaha boards, though, and would welcome a SD/Zax/Aaton/Tascam/Nagra! type product that approached the Yamaha capabilities, but reared it back in a bit to specifically tailor a device catering to our market. My 2cents for what I'd like to see... 2 boom channels with PL and coms returns, an option for AES42 mics would be nice. 4 (for me personally) or 8 (for reality guys - but how many reality people use cart setups?) wireless mic channels with option for SRC equipped AES inputs. Single ambience mic stereo channel strip. 4 output buss for stereo camera and IFB feeds. I'd actually prefer a traditional 2-buss mixer with 2 pre/post selectable per channel rotary AUX sends. 100mm+ faders. $8000... sold. P.S. no touchscreen, no LCD screens that were required for normal operation, setup ok, but not while mixing, no flexible pots that do more than 1 function, unless it is stuff like setting EQ or filters like many digital mixer "fat channels"... all basic audio routing on mechanical linear faders or rotary pots. They can be controllers if they need to be, but should have absolute positions like analog rotary pots, that's my ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark LeBlanc Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 From a market standpoint is there a bigger market share above 8 tracks then there is below. Part of why I think the Nomad has so much buzz is the price point plus ISO track count when compared to any SD offering. Theres more hay to be made for their engineering bang for buck in something lower track count than the 788 as opposed to a 16 track recorder of what 10k plus?. I haven't hit that many situations on a Movie yet that demanded more than 8 ISO channels yet. I work a lot of fast paced SyFy channel stuff and find the 788/CL 9 combo to work well, is it perfect. NO, but I get very good,clean sound with a low power footprint. I have to say though my favorite feature of the Sound Devices 788 is the ability to name tracks and Scenes. Not all Scripty and 2nd AC folks are on top of what should be on the slate and a simple glance at my screen clears up a lot of confusion plus at the end of the day I use the built in report generator and hand off a thumb drive to camera. Very fast.. So, if SD did a more than 8 ISO recorder, it would make me happy but I wouldn't run out to buy one.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomboom Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 dfisk: Good point ! And almost the same point that's been discussed about mixing boards vs control surfaces some time ago... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 MixPreD or 302 with backup recording like in the 552 will be something I will buy right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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