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744t obsolete?


ChrisH

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So as I shop around and struggle between getting a 788t/cl8 or a nomad I have come to the conclusion that the 744t is obsolete.

The current combo for a bag rig;

552 $2895

744t $4095

Cables $310ish

$7300

Gives you 4 ISOs and stereo mix track, could steal one channel on 552 for 5th channel iso but it would be awkward for post to have 1 ISO and mix on SDHC and 4 ISOs on CF. variable pan pots are largely unnecessary and harder to use than cl8 LR assign buttons. All mix controls are on 552 in a very small space.

Or

788t $5995

Cl8 $985

No interconnection cables needed between units other than USB (included)

$6980

Gives you 8 ISOs, 2 auxes, and LR mix. Input trims in one spot, faders in another. 788t/cl8 lighter than 744t/552 combo, also lower power usage. Also more reliable less interconnects, better battery backup. For example if you use an np1 system and your np1 or bds dies your 788t jumps to internal Sony L-type battery, and will last for a while, a few spare charged Ltype batteries will get you through the day and you can fix or buy a new bds for the next day. If you have the 744/552 and your bds dies you have two very different batteries(sony Ltype/ aa) running two very essential pieces of your system. If your bds is dead and you have to work that way to finish the day out its a pain to change AAs and charge your L batteries. Also you don't have two types of media, or if you do the other type is a backup(hd, second cf etc...). And most importantly the 788t turns red when it's rolling lol.

I understand that if you own either the 744t or the 552 then it is cheaper to buy the other corresponding piece instead of a whole new package, but as a package deal for mixing e 744t is dead.

Do you guys agree with my sentiment?

Thoughts on this?

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Nomad 6 rotary pots (don't appear to be true "touch sensitive" FWIW) 1 headphone volume pot, and 1 contextual rotary controllers with push button action. 9 contextual / multi-function membrane buttons.

552 5 rotary pots (level), 5 rotary push lock pots (gain), 5 rotary push lock pots (filter), 5 rotary push lock pots (pan), 5 PFL toggles, transport joystick, slate toggle, master fader, limiter switch, headphone pot, monitoring rotary switch, return switch, multi-function contextual menu push button.

I'm not going to make any qualitative assessment about their differences, but you can see that they are polar opposites from a "style" approach. Technical specs and capabilities, Zaxcom kill the 552/744 combo in ever facet and is cheaper. Are you the type of person that would have a preference strong enough from an interface perspective to sway your decision?

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Looking at Chris' original analysis of the advantages of the 788 combo over the 422, based on the criteria used, the Nomad is a clear winner over both: Weight, power consumption, no interconnection cables, depth of functionality, cost, simple powering with on-board backup power, etc.

...And, it's upgradable.

Mine arrives Monday.

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I understand the point of the comparison but I think "obsolete" might not be the best word to assess the 744.

It may be that the 744 is no longer a hot item in the marketplace, having been replaced by gear with more tracks and other capabilities. But it continues to function very will within the scope of its design, uses high quality built-in pre-amps and produces audio files in the currently accepted format (BWF) that will match the quality of files produced by other recorders. It would still be a good choice as a second recorder to make a back-up copy of the mix track or to cover an emergency failure of the primary recorder.

One of the dangers of a dismissive attitude towards older equipment is that it encourages thinking that only the very latest toy is suitable for a contemporary project. I've had producers insist that their show be recorded in DAT when a time-code Nagra would have served their needs just as well. That was 15-plus years ago of course but the principal is the same. Invariably these demands come on the lower budget projects where the company is unwilling to pay extra for their particular demands and the dilemma becomes, do I rent exactly what they want, even though I already own something suitable, or do I decline the assignment?

If the gear does the job and produces first class results, it shouldn't be dismissed as obsolete.

David

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What about all those people who kept clamoring for VARIABLE pan pots that Nomad doesn't have? Tom Visser quite clearly pointed out why some combination of SD 744T and 442 or 552, whatever, would be preferable for some people, although such a combination is clearly lacking other features and functions that Nomad has. This is why it has to be a PERSONAL decision so that you get the equipment that can get the job done properly and represents the way you want to work.

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Well 744T is fine if that's all you need so in that sense not obsolete, I owned one from when first released and used it in combination with 442 but started to run up against needing more tracks so I got a Fusion but it simply wasn't fast enough for me for some of the doco stuff I do so got a 788T/CL8 as well, so its 788T for doco and Fusion for drama for me.

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I totally agree with both David's and Jeff's posts.

Purchasing is quite personal. That's why when someone comes here to ask, "What gear should I buy?" I'm quite tempted to respond, "If you have to ask, you're not ready to buy."

David hit the mark. It's not the age of the technology, it's the capability and how that capability fits the job. Even though I also own a Deva V, I've used my Deva II as recently as this week.

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For some of us, when recording effects or very dynamic acoustic music, the fact that you can't use the 788t's limiters at anything above 48k is a big downside. Is this the same with the Nomad?

For example, could I record six tracks @ 96khz w/ limiters* on for 3 hours non-stop? For a 744/552 combo, this is not a problem at all.

* taking for granted that NeverClip might negate that need, I'm still curious.

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I just had a word with my 744T and far from being obsolete, he feels exhausted from working so much, this year more than ever. As Ben mentions earlier, a Mix Pre D and a 744T is an awesome rig, lightweight, 4 tracks, timecode, reliable, solid as a rock, and veteran of many shoots.

I'm off to Kabul again next week, would I take a Nomad? No I certainly wouldn't, I want gear that works now and will work tomorrow, regardless of what I ask of it. That's the 744T.

Eat your veggies.

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I sold my 442/744t the day after my Nomad was delivered. It's not perfect but is by far the best in-bag solution for my needs, and far more capable and lighter than my previous rig.

Remember too, that the Nomad is just in its infancy, software-wise. The Automix function will be another unique feature when it debuts as well as further tweaking of the OS and display configs that will evolve in the future.

The lack of pan pots has not been a deal breaker for me, and I was very convinced about this before I got the Nomad.

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I have a 744t and a 302... while the 302 doesn't give you the option of recording pre fader iso's, its cheaper than a 552 and gives you the extra pre's for channels 3 and 4... that said, a 4 channel Nomad is cheaper than a 744t.

I think what Jaymz says is a good point though, for recording FX you can also go up to 192khz and you don't need all the Nomads "bells and whistles".

I know I am definitely looking at replacing my setup with a Nomad at some point, but the 744 is still a quality machine.

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So, is this thread about justifying buying new gear to oneself? From a business point of view, why would you get into a larger, heavier, more expensive and more complex rig than what your work supported? If your clients demand lotsa tracks then you have to do what you have to do. Many many jobs do not, really, and a 744 sounds as good as a 788 or a Nomad or anything else. I don't really care what is considered "obsolete" in some abstract sense--I want to get the jobs that come my way done the best I can do them while maintaining a rate my clients like and that makes me ever more wealthy. Buy the tools you need, not the tools you wish you needed.

Anyone here with a 744T that they need to get rid of for the price of an "obsolete" piece of gear please PM me right away!

phil p

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I'm also the owner of a 552/744T setup. I've done alot of reading and researching on the Nomad, and it is indeed an impressive machine. 99.9% of my work is documentary/investigative journalism stuff, where lots of changes to the shoot plan happen almost constantly, and I'm very comfortable with the way Sound Devices has configured their equipment to be user friendly and ergonomic. As per John Blankenship's message, "If I have to ask, I'm not ready to buy", so I'm going to have to do alot of hands-on with the Nomad before I'm ready to go lighter and give up on my tried and true SD workhorses. My 2 cents....

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Anyone here with a 744T that they need to get rid of for the price of an "obsolete" piece of gear please PM me right away!

phil p

And if you have 2 to sell, I'll take both.

I paid less for my new 744T than for my used Nagra 4.2. I'll say that I got my moneys' worth in both circumstances. In terms of cost of ownership, the 744T wins hands down as I've spent less maintaining it in the 6+ years I've owned it than my yearly maintenance costs for my 4.2.

Just my perspective.

Best regards,

Jim

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Argh nomad has hi jacked this thread. I started this based on the fact that someone else on this site was waiting for their nomad and becoming impatient. They said they were considering buying a744/552 combo.

I understand if all you need is the 744t or the 552 then of course that is better for those specific situations, although its not very future proof for gigs that later on may require more tracks.

I am saying that the 744t/552 combo is both more expensive and inferior to the 788t/cl8, combo.

I am on the list waiting for my nomad but this is all about SD workflows. I do appreciate the side conversation, just trying to get it back on track and hopefully prevent anyone in my situation from buying 552/744t combo instead of 789/cl8.

I believe the nomad is a different beast and fits a different market and can't really fairly be compared to SDs current line up. What sound devices may come out with is addressed in another post I started before.

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"a 744 sounds as good as a 788 or a Nomad or anything else."

This is not a factual statement. Never Clip puts the Nomad in a different league. Every other mixer/recorder will have limiter distortion or clipping as a result of input overload. The Nomads Neverclip system provides a level of quality that is audible when inputs exceed normal dynamic range. This is very significant for the sound effects crowd.

Glenn

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I understand if all you need is the 744t or the 552 then of course that is better for those specific situations, although its not very future proof for gigs that later on may require more tracks.

You should buy what you need/can afford right now. And often that may be a lower track count machine. But to continue the Nomad hijack for just a bit more that is one of the advantages of Nomad - its upgradeability. If you only need and can only afford 4 tracks you can get a Nomad 4 now and in the future Nomad will allow you to upgrade when you need/can afford more.

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"a 744 sounds as good as a 788 or a Nomad or anything else."

This is not a factual statement. Never Clip puts the Nomad in a different league. Every other mixer/recorder will have limiter distortion or clipping as a result of input overload. The Nomads Neverclip system provides a level of quality that is audible when inputs exceed normal dynamic range. This is very significant for the sound effects crowd.

Glenn

Please cite the facts, Glenn.

I'm only curious, not hostile.

Best regards,

Jim

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"a 744 sounds as good as a 788 or a Nomad or anything else."

This is not a factual statement. Never Clip puts the Nomad in a different league. Every other mixer/recorder will have limiter distortion or clipping as a result of input overload. The Nomads Neverclip system provides a level of quality that is audible when inputs exceed normal dynamic range. This is very significant for the sound effects crowd.

Glenn

This an exactly factual statement as it affects most working soundies most of the time, and in any case this thread is addressed to mixers, not to manufacturers with axes to grind. We soundies work very hard to stay out of clipping range, the other signal chains and recorders I've used have their own methods of dealing with loud transients, post has even more, and in real world use I defy anyone to be able to detect a difference in audio quality between all the commonly used machines. Can threads that don't start with specifically Nomad-oriented questions not turn into Nomad advertisements please?

phil p

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