TheAudioSynthesist Posted March 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 I think the problem is that you are too defensive. You have come on here asking for work without contributing to any other conversation that I can see. (other than looking for gear to buy) These guys on this site have great respect for the work they do. The last thing people want is a new guy with little experience and a 702 moving into their city and stealing all the work with their low rates. Before asking people here for work, contribute to conversation. Gain knowledge. Ask Questions. Answer questions. Having someone with little experience or knowledge on your team is like working even more closely with that PA who constantly asks you questions about all your gear and how you get your job done through an entire project. its a 702T look, i'm not trying to steal work from anyone. of course little old me is not going to take a big production shoot from a veteran sound mixer with a 30 thousand dollar cart. i'm okay doing ads, small projects, and when the opportunity presents itself bigger stuff like feature length films, or television shows. my mistake for not knowing that i had to post in multiple conversations to ask a few questions. i thought we were supposed to be friendly towards each other. i mean, i can expect this kind of crap from a DP or a producer or something but fellow sound people? aren't we supposed to help each other out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsnd Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 its a 702T look, i'm not trying to steal work from anyone. of course little old me is not going to take a big production shoot from a veteran sound mixer with a 30 thousand dollar cart. i'm okay doing ads, small projects, and when the opportunity presents itself bigger stuff like feature length films, or television shows. my mistake for not knowing that i had to post in multiple conversations to ask a few questions. i thought we were supposed to be friendly towards each other. i mean, i can expect this kind of crap from a DP or a producer or something but fellow sound people? aren't we supposed to help each other out? I'm trying to help you dude! I'm telling you that none of us know you. We don't know what you know or don't know. We don't know anything about you. What we do know is that you came on here recently looking for a 702 and now you are a sound mixer trying to ask for work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAudioSynthesist Posted March 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 lol. well you sure have a funny way of going about it. if your intention was to help then i'm sorry i missed that. really. everyones' replies seem so negative. i just asked a few questions and bam! all of a sudden i'm at student level again. didn't think that was fair but then again, my experience IS limited. i posted in the "about me" post that is required when you join. and yes, i am looking for location equipment because i started off doing post first. we didn't learn location sound in school, i learned on set. i'm honestly not too bad at it either. on the two features i did (with really great equipment) i got lots of compliments from other sound people. my boom op (who did slumdog) thought i had been doing this longer. i've never had my own location equipment and have had to rent it in the past. that is killing me so i'm trying to start slowly and build something workable. i won't be staying with the 702T very long...looking at zaxcom but i'd like to get some lavs first. my profile is also full of information about me and my experience with sound and sound equipment. all you had to do was look there or even just ask me, "what level of experience do you have Chris?" i would've been happy to answer. once again, not here to do battle with sound people more skilled than myself. i AM here to learn and to hopefully be a productive member of this sound forum. until today i've had no problems here. do i have A LOT to learn about this field? yes. i won't argue that. but am i confident with what i DO already know and can i take on a feature length film or even a television show and produce quality tracks that would raise little-to-no-more-than-usual problems in post? yes, i believe so. anything else anyone wants to know, feel free to ask. btw, i did mention i was looking for post production work too. not just production mixing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAudioSynthesist Posted March 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 food for thought: owning equipment doesn't give you a title. like Roger Waters said, "give a man a Les Paul and he doesn't become Eric Clapton". the simple fact that i DIDN'T own any production gear before joining this forum does not mean i don't know how to use that (or any other type) of gear. i know a great DP who doesn't even own a camera and he's doing just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAudioSynthesist Posted March 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 okay, i'm going out on limb but you guys be the judge. am i a beginner, intermediate, or do i have some level of skills? can you place my skill level based on this short 2 min clip? this is part of my demo reel so feedback (possitive and negative) is welcome. just please keep it professional... thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Reilly Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 "everyones' replies seem so negative" I only want you to avoid underselling your skills..hurts everyone. Swap "cheap" for "value"..something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAudioSynthesist Posted March 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 semantics. smart. you got it. value makes more sense. i'm too honest sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsnd Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 I think everything I have told you so far has been advice. From looking at your resume to explaining to you why nobody is helping you that much. I think the best advice I can give you on your last comment is that you should not post raw audio from projects, and that most location sound guys do not have a reel. If someone asks you for a reel, it is probably a good indication that the person you are talking to has very little experience hiring and talking to sound people. This is a topic that has recently been discussed on here. I assume that you got permission to post that. If you must have a reel, I would make it from the final mix of projects you have worked on. People looking at the reel are going to be trying to pick every little thing out that is wrong as much as they can. Your best bet is to give them as little to scrutinize. If they want to hear something, why not send them the end result of your work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAudioSynthesist Posted March 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 The other film, "Shala" has already won 7 awards. Sadly none for sound but I won't get in to why or what films that it was up against did win...apparently you can't nominate one movie for ALL the awards so we were not considered for sound even though our sound was really good compared to the other nominees. I was just informed (by the sound designer) that the awards ceremony didn't even have a classification for sound. you see, in India, most Hindi, Tamil, Marathi, etc films don't do what they like to call "sync sound movies". they record a pilot track, usually with a nagra or some kind of DAT, and then overdub everything in the studio. (disgusting if you ask me) so its actually no surprise to me that there isn't even an award to be won for this kind of work as it is just now changing. and slowly at that. most of the indian sound people have experience because they work on foreign projects that shoot in india. i.e. Hollywood, BBC, etc. there is an award for music, but sadly, not sound. (yet) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Reilly Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 If people "know your work", ask them to be references or get endorsements...better than giving free, coupon trials. Truthfully, I make the mistake of thinking marketing takes care of itself too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAudioSynthesist Posted March 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 I think everything I have told you so far has been advice. From looking at your resume to explaining to you why nobody is helping you that much. I think the best advice I can give you on your last comment is that you should not post raw audio from projects, and that most location sound guys do not have a reel. If someone asks you for a reel, it is probably a good indication that the person you are talking to has very little experience hiring and talking to sound people. This is a topic that has recently been discussed on here. I assume that you got permission to post that. If you must have a reel, I would make it from the final mix of projects you have worked on. People looking at the reel are going to be trying to pick every little thing out that is wrong as much as they can. Your best bet is to give them as little to scrutinize. If they want to hear something, why not send them the end result of your work? I appreciate your advice. really. it just came off sort of harsh. i'm from a small town... anyway, i see your point in the demo reel thing. this is something that i typically send out to people familiar with film sound production though. not really to producers, writers, or such. a dialog editor would understand it, just as well as another production sound mixer. right? or am i wrong here too? would like your opinion... the reason why i didn't want to post the final mix is i had nothing to do with the post. you can work magic in post even on bad audio tracks (to a degree) and i wouldn't want anyone to listen to work i hadn't done. makes sense? wrong again? and yes, i did have permission. and still do. https://vimeo.com/34715296 an example of my post work. (i did not do production sound on this one.) If people "know your work", ask them to be references or get endorsements...better than giving free, coupon trials. Truthfully, I make the mistake of thinking marketing takes care of itself too. you're full of good ideas...thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Reilly Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 "you can work magic in post even on bad audio tracks (to a degree) and i wouldn't want anyone to listen to work i hadn't done. makes sense?" Although opens you up to additional scrutiny, makes sense if given to someone who appreciates a glimpse at what you will deliver, not post turd polishing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAudioSynthesist Posted March 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 i just uploaded a small album in my profile. more info about yours truely can be found there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 not sure what you meant but you are right about the next gen coming. all compound things decay, including human ears. film sound alumni, why not spread your vast knowledge to us younger generation "soundys"? soon your trade secrets will be gone and we won't know what we're doing and perhaps movies will start sounding as bad as music these days. I agree. But I'm 23 years old man. I'm a newbie. I know little secrets on the job because I'm newbie. And I'm training every day in and out job to find all these secrets how know the old school mixers. Search, try, compare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAudioSynthesist Posted March 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 I agree. But I'm 23 years old man. I'm a newbie. I know little secrets on the job because I'm newbie. And I'm training every day in and out job to find all these secrets how know the old school mixers. Search, try, compare. that is good man. keep at it! i was in school learning pro tools, foley, and post sound when i was 23. it was a great year for me. all we can do is keep learning right? no one can know everything. in fact its hard even (really) knowing anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirror Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Very well said RVD, my hat's off to you. Mirror Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 look, i'm not trying to steal work from anyone. of course little old me is not going to take a big production shoot from a veteran sound mixer with a 30 thousand dollar cart. i'm okay doing ads, small projects, and when the opportunity presents itself bigger stuff like feature length films, or television shows. I wish my cart was only $30k, and I'm no veteran. And "ads" are a pretty sought after gig in the big markets. If I was young and had the ability to move to a new town and pronounce myself as a mixer, I wouldn't pick the most expensive city in the country with a high concentration of more experienced mixers. I'd pick an emerging market full of other less experienced mixers. Shows in Atlanta and Louisiana are hiring "local mixers" left and right without regard for experience. While the more established mixers in those areas will get the better jobs, you might have a better shot at some good gigs which will pay the bills than you would in a place like New York or Los Angeles. Best of luck - you may discover being a bigger fish in a small pond, making your rent in one day of work, isn't so bad after all. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAudioSynthesist Posted March 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Pretty contentious thread, but I must say I admire you for continuing to "fight back." One thing I feel from reading the thread is that you're defensive about people's comments in regard to your level of experience. You seem to feel you have plenty, and confidence is a great quality to have, but don't discount the advantage of working as a part of a sound crew. I started mixing when I was 22, just commercials in Los Angeles, and I felt that I knew it all. Now back in my day the equipment and way of recording was much simpler, compared to today's world of multi-track recorders and multiple mic mixing. I'm sure you might have heard the saying, "hindsight is 20/20," meaning that when you look backwards at your life the decisions are much clearer than in the moment. I wish I had worked as a sound utility, then maybe a boom operator, and then worked my way up to being a mixer. I didn't have the contacts, or talent to get work as a boom operator and I knew the equipment, so I worked as a mixer. It's a hard road to be young and confident and capable, but no track record. I know you feel you have a track record, but with all apologies, films made in India don't transfer to films made in America, as far as a resume goes. With your abilities, Pro Tools, you could be a valuable asset to a sound crew, if playback was needed you could get a bump up in pay and impress the mixer you're working for. While learning from him/her set protocol, negotiation, and just general on set manners. Save your money, instead of investing in high end gear right away, slowly concentrate on quality pieces for your kit and build it up a little at a time. You actually might find the work of a sound utility very rewarding and not want to be a mixer, they have to get the job and if you're good, the mixers will come calling for you, and you won't have to sell yourself short, cheap. Another thing to think about is how many people want to be mixers, and have done just as you have and jumped in and said they want the mixing job. Mixers need quality people at the utility job and the boom positiion, and if you are good the work can come. Maybe make a goal of getting into the union, always a good idea, first. Then after you've made some contacts through mixers, maybe they'll start to throw some work your way, this is a path many have taken. Confidence is such a wonderful thing to have, but don't confuse it with obstinance, humility is so much more atttractive, and combined with confidence...... Good Luck to you on your journey, I hope you succeed in what you want to do, and just remember life is a marathon not a sprint. Cheers, Rich Van Dyke Thank you for your perspective Rich. Love the idea of being an on set Pro Tools guy giving audio dailys or something to that degree. Great idea. I guess I should have mentioned that I don't mind doing boom and sound utility. In fact, I'd rather start there to be honest. While I feel I have (majority) of the technical know-how to mix I would be honored to work under someone with much more knowledge and experience than me. I haven't had that experience yet because there are no sound mixers in my city. I've had to be all three roles at once. Utility, boom, mixer. Its made me learn fast and built confidence but I know I'm lacking a lot of experience. I'd jump at the chance to work under someone... I guess I've come off as being defensive because despite my limited experience as a production sound mixer, I know that I've got the basics more than covered and out of the way and would go as far as saying I was bottom level intermediate. Physically and mentally I can take on a big project, the only difference between me and someone with more experience is the decision making. I'd have less tricks up my sleeve and still be learning things along the way where as an experienced mixer (with the same equipment) might know how to make his job easier and get a little bit better sound than I would. My first production sound mixing gig was a feature length film in a foreign country. I got thrown into the deep end and had to learn very quickly. Thankfully I had a great boom op who ended up following me to the next feature as well. After that, when I returned home, the gigs just came flying in and I had no boom op, utility, or even a mentor. I just kinda fell into it. I had to take everything I learned on that first feature and apply it to different equipment and a completely different work flow. Anyway, I very much appreciate your responce. I will keep all your suggestions in mind. Thank you again... C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAudioSynthesist Posted March 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 I wish my cart was only $30k, and I'm no veteran. And "ads" are a pretty sought after gig in the big markets. If I was young and had the ability to move to a new town and pronounce myself as a mixer, I wouldn't pick the most expensive city in the country with a high concentration of more experienced mixers. I'd pick an emerging market full of other less experienced mixers. Shows in Atlanta and Louisiana are hiring "local mixers" left and right without regard for experience. While the more established mixers in those areas will get the better jobs, you might have a better shot at some good gigs which will pay the bills than you would in a place like New York or Los Angeles. Best of luck - you may discover being a bigger fish in a small pond, making your rent in one day of work, isn't so bad after all. Robert equally good advice. Thank you Robert. I know its great being the big fish. A lot of people come to me for help with sound. Local ad agencies, filmmakers, bands, venues, etc. but like I mentioned in my reply to RVD, I think I need to work under someone who can teach me something. I've been looking into Louisiana too. Maybe I should look a little harder. Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) " the "about me" post that is required when you join. " actually, there is a thread here called "who I am..." that is a great place to introduce yourself. I strongly believe a new member here should do a little "reading the mail" to find out how the group works and what we are discussing; maybe do a bit of searching for some topics of interest, to see what, if anything, has been said about them recently "CHEAP" ? " value " how about "get to know me rates" ?? fact is, in NYC, not only will you face cost of living sticker shock, you will face immense competition for any quality (paid) work, and be inundated with "opportunities" to work for free, --or dirt cheap,-- usually with gear expected! " if any of you guys are looking for a sound guy " we aren't looking for sound crew here, we, here on jwsoundgroup, are sound crew looking for work... " I know that I've got the basics more than covered and out of the way... Love the idea of being an on set Pro Tools guy giving audio dailys or something " I don't think you have all the basics out of the way: PT on set would be for playback! Edited March 7, 2012 by studiomprd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 " the "about me" post that is required when you join. " no such requirement, but a nice place to introduce yourself... Actually, the "About Me" field in the registration routine IS a required field. People who are offended by this, are too lazy or disinterested to put something meaningful there, just put a single word like "yes" or "no" or even just a character like a period to go into the field. This is unfortunate since I use that field to determine whether to approve a potential member's registration. Those who are smart enough to enter something like "freelance sound person" will be approved immediately. Someone who puts in something like "likes cars" might take a little more time to be approved. Also, I will add that the registration and sign-up routine that allows for Facebook members to sign up using Facebook Connect, are NOT required to fill in the "About Me" section (actually, I think the Facebook method bypasses all the normal registration routines which I find to be a little troubling). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAudioSynthesist Posted March 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 " the "about me" post that is required when you join. " no such requirement, but a nice place to introduce yourself... "CHEAP" ? " value " how about "get to know me rates" ?? fact is, in NYC, not only will you face cost of living sticker shock, you will face immense competition for any quality (paid) work, and be inundated with "opportunities" to work for free, --or dirt cheap,-- usually with gear expected! the work for dirt cheap with gear included has already happened to me and i'm not even there yet. $1500 for a 20 day shoot. i just laughed in the end... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAudioSynthesist Posted March 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 " if any of you guys are looking for a sound guy " we aren't looking for sound crew, we, here on jwsoundgroup, are sound crew looking for work... right. but i'm sure some of you mixers occasionally are looking for boom ops or utility guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 right. but i'm sure some of you mixers occasionally are looking for boom ops or utility guys. Maybe. But there are lots of people with lots of experience in NYC. And your experience being a mixer/boom 1-man band in no way qualifies you to work as a narrative boom op or utility person. And entering a market as a "mixer who is willing to work as a boom/utility" will be a detriment to your hirability. And you'd need to be in the union for the lucrative narrative jobs. If it was that easy, there'd be dozens of folks from this group alone packing a uHaul and heading to NYC. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 I lived in NYC for almost 9 years and never "broke into" the industry. I was quite happy mind you working on little student and indie projects, but never once was solicited or was qualified to work on a larger project. That's the cool thing about large markets, there are lots of projects of different types, and normally more people there than needed to do them, but if you have chops, a compatible personality, and luck, you can rise up amongst the ranks. My rent when I left there was almost $4000 for a small 1 bedroom apartment (tiny by non-NYC standards). You'd have to pull in about $500 a day to live comfortably "in the city" without a savings plans. Maybe a little bit less if you decide to live in an outer borough and are very thrifty with your money. Get too far out, and you start paying the difference in commuting costs and your time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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