Nomad users: What are the specs on your Breakaway Cable?

[Jack Norflus]

I'm using 2931 with the Neutricon, I have the sends sharing the ground and I also thinned out the shield - so everything like you did. Though I am not hearing any clicks or pops.

Any chance that some stray shield is shorting something.

[S Harber]

7 Pin XLRs for camera snakes.

Much easier to find parts/shells.

Cheaper.

More rugged and there isn't 2 version of pinouts.

Enough pins to cover 2 balanced sends and a stereo return.

Scott Harber

[Shawn D]

Thanks for the reply Jack, maybe it is shorting somewhere but tests for shorts and continuity seem good. The connectors and solder joints look clean and I put heat shrink over both the shared sends' shields and the return shields before soldering to try and minimize the opportunity for that. I might try potting the connectors next but I don't think it's that. What makes me think it's the cable is that the crackling happens when the cable is twisted or pinched anywhere along the length, not just at the connections. Could be my Motu Ultralite I'm testing it on is the culprit but I've never had a cable do this before. I'll try testing it on my Nomad this week.

[bendybones]

7 Pin XLRs

[...]

More rugged and there isn't 2 version of pinouts.

So what has 2 versions of pinouts, Neutricon or Hirose?

[Mark Orusa]

I just made a breakaway cable using Mogami 2931 with Neutricon 8 connectors and I'm experiencing clicks and pops when moving the cable on the 2 XLR channels.

I've been using this exact cable/connector system for 6 years without any issues. I suspect an issue with the connection at the Neutricon.

When you strip back the jacket on the individually numbered lines you should cut off the spiral shield and solder just the bare ground wire to the connector. You should also put some small heat shrink or Teflon insulation tubing over the ground wire to prevent it from touching other wires. It's hard to do that with all those small wires in that tight connector, but worth the extra security.

Mark O.

[Wandering Ear]

I also think it sounds like something is shorting somewhere. Could be a single strand of the shiled or otherwise making intermittent contact somewhere.

So what has 2 versions of pinouts, Neutricon or Hirose?

PSC and Remote Audio snakes both use the Neutricon connectors, but wire them differently.

[johnpaul215]

So what has 2 versions of pinouts, Neutricon or Hirose?

Hirose as well. There was a thread about the Fostex PD-6 using a different 10-pin wiring than *most* other stuff (442 mixer etc). I don't remember if the PD-6 used the same wiring as anything else.

[Shawn D]

I've been using this exact cable/connector system for 6 years without any issues. I suspect an issue with the connection at the Neutricon.

When you strip back the jacket on the individually numbered lines you should cut off the spiral shield and solder just the bare ground wire to the connector. You should also put some small heat shrink or Teflon insulation tubing over the ground wire to prevent it from touching other wires. It's hard to do that with all those small wires in that tight connector, but worth the extra security.

Mark O.

Thanks for the suggestion Mark, I'll try only using the ground wire and not the spiral shield.

[S Harber]

There are 2 version of the Neutricon pinout used on the fanout sides of cable sold. I think Remote had one version and PSC or ? had another and on some of the larger reality shows in years past I remember incompatible wiring being an issue with cables not matching up with the fan outs.

Not an invalid concern especially when you are potentially cabling to distant cameras or extending and mixing and matching parts.

I use 7 pin XLRs and follow the standard of sends first then returns.

ie.

1-Ground

2-L Hot

3-L Common

4-R Hot

5-R Common

6-Return L

7-Return R

No muss no fuss.

Easy to solder, find replacement parts or to be able to pull the shells from other cables when in a pinch.

How many of you are rolling around with Neutricon parts that can be replaced in under a minute that are in your run bag right now?

Scott Harber

So what has 2 versions of pinouts, Neutricon or Hirose?

[mastermixaudiomedia]

Getting ready to order parts to build a set of breakaway cables for my Nomad, much like Jack's setup. Going with Neutricon and the Remote Audio CA3PS26 cable, will be wiring to Remote Audio standard for compatibility.

Thanks to all the contributors in this and other breakaway cable threads...

[Jack Norflus]

Good luck.

Just one piece of advice. You should solder all your pins and align them properly in the nutricon base before locking them into place. Because once you push them in place they don't come out.

[mastermixaudiomedia]

Thanks Jack. I did see that warning in the product info from Neutrik but it's one of those things that can't be emphasized enough.

Ready to fire up the Hakko!

[Mark Orusa]

Good luck.

Just one piece of advice. You should solder all your pins and align them properly in the nutricon base before locking them into place. Because once you push them in place they don't come out.

I found that doing this way was much more difficult to do than soldering with the pins already mounted. Due to the short length of the connector you can only strip the jacket back about 3/4", otherwise the chuck will grab wires instead of the jacket. This leaves you with very little wire to work with and you end up having to push all 8 pins into the insert (the thing that holds the pins) at the same time. It's also nearly impossible to keep from pulling too hard on one wire as you push in another.

I suggest inserting the pins into the insert. Then, solder the middle pin first and work counter-clockwise, trying to position the wires so as to cause the least amount of stress. Be sure to keep a copy of the Neutricon spec sheet/manual handy to make sure you get the pin order correct. The males and females are opposite from each other.

Mark O.

[Andrew Rowe]

I notice Vincent R's lemo breakaway seems to carry TC - a potential use for the 10th pin of a Hirose. Is anyone else sending/receiving TC to cameras through their umbilical? And doesn't this carry a high risk of crosstalk?

I used to use a 7-pin XLR with my SD302, but with a Nomad you would lose the potential of the balanced return (9 pins, minimum). Can't remember the last time I cabled to a camera with a balanced output though - maybe more than a decade! Have to say, I'd have preferred a minijack return on the Nomad, even though the TA5 is 'better' and can add a couple of inputs (guess that's more important to Nomad 8 or 12 users; I'm on a 6, so a mere 16 inputs would have been fine!).

[rich]

You can run time code down your umbilical if you have the pins spare in your connector. It (in my experience) depends on your umbilical cable.

I found that the crosstalk was greatly reduced using a multipair umbilical, and having the unbalanced return on one pair, and the time code on its own pair.

It also turns out you can run SD video through the umbilical as well - as a customer has told me. Though SDI doesn't work. But as, in his situation, the signal is running down an audio cable rather than a coaxial cable with the correct impedance, I am not surprised.

[Vincent R.]

The bnc is used for video. Here in the Netherlands it became some sort of a trend that ENG mixers have a small LCD in the bag for framing. But if the mogami cable is proper shielded I think it works okay for TC.

[Scott Smith]

I have set up quite a few camera umbilcals that send TC to the cameras, along with stereo audio and return. Most of these have been for multi-camera setups fed from a DA. Never had a TC crosstalk issue.

We had large run of custom cable made up years ago that had two quad audio cables and one coax, which functioned quite well. Not cheap-wish I still had some. Have also used Mogami and Canare 4 pair quad cable, as well as a couple of Gepco cables. Note, however, that the Mogami cables are famous for having issues with the shields breaking down over time, which will lead to noise when flexed.

I have used a variety of connectors over the years, including Cannon K series (very pricey now, but used to be cheap back in the day), Alcatel/Amphenol AP and EP series (rock solid, but a big large), Neutricons, Hirose RM series 10, 12 and 14 pin, and 14 pin JAE connectors.

I'm still partial to the JAE or Hirose 14 pin bayonet style connectors, as they are easy to source, and stand up pretty well in the field. Lemos are great, but you better have deep pockets!

[Shawn D]

I just rebuilt a breakaway using Mogami 2931. I wanted to do exactly what Jack was doing with Neutricon connectors at each end for use with different mixers and cameras. Previously I experienced small clicks and pops in the XLR lines when I moved them about in my fingers. Tried re-soldering every connector and even making a snake first with no Neutricon connectors or shared grounds, just XLR to XLR. This time I only soldered the ground wire and not the spiral shield to use for the ground, ground leads were insulated with heat shrink. It still creates clicks and pops when twisted in my fingers. The clicks are obvious when the female ends are not connected to anything and attenuated quite a bit when a source is connected. Testing for continuity and shorting shows no shorts and perfect continuity even when twisted in my fingers. Tests for capacitance show slight capacitance build up and released when twisting the cable. It is my belief that the spiral shield as opposed to a braided shield may be responsible for this. It could probably be solved by soldering all of the spiral shield plus the ground wire at each end, however this is too large to fit in a Neutricon pin solder cup or many small connectors. Perhaps my batch of 2931 is faulty, but I doubt it. It would probably be fine to use for non-critical applications or line level but I'm not happy with the results.

I'm interested to know if any one else using the 2931 would perform the twist in fingers test on their XLR lines and confirm my findings or let me know that I'm crazy.

[Jack Norflus]

I been using 2931 for close to 20 years with no issue

[Wandering Ear]

I also have built multiple snakes using 2931 without issue.

[Mark Orusa]

Same here. I've built three snakes with Neutricons on both ends, and various tails, without any issues.

Mark O.

[Scott Smith]

Shawn D: No, you're not crazy.

As stated here and on other sites, the Mogami cables are famous for having issues with induced noise due to the shield construction. It is usually most apparent when subject to high RF or EMI environments. I would be surprised if you are having an issue with new cable though-this is something that usually occurs after a period of time, where the cable has undergone a fair amount of flexing. It gets much worse if its been exposed to high moisture and salt, which further corrodes the shield.

This usually isn't as noticeable with line level signals, but will be very apparent at mic levels, especially with phantom power present.

Too bad-I love the flexibility of the cable, but it just can't be trusted for situations where it is subject to a lot of stress or flexing (IE: our business!)

I am not entirely clear on how you are wiring these, but it is typically best to keep the send and return shields separate, and tie the send shield to the shell of the XLR connectors. Some users also ground the shell of the Neutricon connectors as well. While this helps eliminate possible RFI or hum, it can also be a source of noise if it rubs against other metal (if you use the black version, this is minimized somewhat).

Personally, I still prefer the Hirose connectors. Easy to wire, solid shell, and can be has from a variety of suppliers. To prevent the shell screw from loosening up, apply a small amount of Loctite 242, which will still allow the screws to be removed, but will otherwise keep them where they belong.

--Scott

I just rebuilt a breakaway using Mogami 2931. I wanted to do exactly what Jack was doing with Neutricon connectors at each end for use with different mixers and cameras. Previously I experienced small clicks and pops in the XLR lines when I moved them about in my fingers. Tried re-soldering every connector and even making a snake first with no Neutricon connectors or shared grounds, just XLR to XLR. This time I only soldered the ground wire and not the spiral shield to use for the ground, ground leads were insulated with heat shrink. It still creates clicks and pops when twisted in my fingers. The clicks are obvious when the female ends are not connected to anything and attenuated quite a bit when a source is connected. Testing for continuity and shorting shows no shorts and perfect continuity even when twisted in my fingers. Tests for capacitance show slight capacitance build up and released when twisting the cable. It is my belief that the spiral shield as opposed to a braided shield may be responsible for this. It could probably be solved by soldering all of the spiral shield plus the ground wire at each end, however this is too large to fit in a Neutricon pin solder cup or many small connectors. Perhaps my batch of 2931 is faulty, but I doubt it. It would probably be fine to use for non-critical applications or line level but I'm not happy with the results.

I'm interested to know if any one else using the 2931 would perform the twist in fingers test on their XLR lines and confirm my findings or let me know that I'm crazy.

[Shawn D]

Thanks for the replies. I'd love to have a flexible breakaway system but I'm not as interested in dropping another few hundred dollars in parts and hours of time into another cable right now. I might go ERX TCD with different fan outs for the time being and revisit this later.

For the future, are there any non-2931 cables that people can recommend? Preferably braided shield. Trew seemed to be out of stock of their 3 ch bulk breakaway cable last time I checked.

[Mark Orusa]

As stated earlier, I have built and used Mogami 2931 in a number of snakes, both production and live sound. I haven't had any issues, nor have I heard about many other people having problems like you describe.

Maybe you should try buying one from a dealer or another fellow user.

Mark

[Wandering Ear]

Thanks for the replies. I'd love to have a flexible breakaway system but I'm not as interested in dropping another few hundred dollars in parts and hours of time into another cable right now. I might go ERX TCD with different fan outs for the time being and revisit this later.

For the future, are there any non-2931 cables that people can recommend? Preferably braided shield. Trew seemed to be out of stock of their 3 ch bulk breakaway cable last time I checked.

Canare makes a 4 channel snake you could try. I can't remember for sure but canare usually uses braided sheilds.