frankaudio Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 i'm ready to start putting together a basic kit. I know what the basics are and am going with the "buy once cry once" approach and willing to invest in quality instead of quantity within my budget and add as I go. With all the reading I have been doing on this site and calculating different equipment costs that I'm interested in it seems that going Nomad makes the most sense financially based on what you get for the price and upgradeability. I don't need a Nomad at this point and I might never need that many inputs and tracks but when you add up Sound Devices 302 or even a Mix Pre and a 702 for really not a lot more you can get into a Nomad 4. Is the Nomad a no brainer even at this stage? Comments appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solid Goldberger Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 The nomad would be a great option, but I would strongly consider a 302 as well (maybe in combination with a Lectro SRa?). If you need a separate recorder often then the nomad might be a no-brainer, as you say. However when I was starting out, I found myself on a mix of big jobs (where I worked with rented gear), and small ENG gigs where the tiny size and value of the 302 (first with Lectro 401s, then with an SRa) was a wonderfully reliable and economical option. You won't regret buying either nomad or a 302, but in my mind, if I was just starting out, and could initially get a 302 and some wireless gear for the same price as a Nomad, id probably go that direction. If money is less tight for you then it was for me, then go for the Nomad (or Fusion or 788t, both likely available in the used marketplace.). Good luck! Building your first kit is really exciting. Don't forget to buy gear that you want to use, not just the gear that gets you the best bang for the buck. In the end, iif it costs you a little more money but makes you more satisfied to go to work each day, it's worth it. E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maplecap Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Is the Nomad a no brainer even at this stage? Comments appreciated Absolutely not, IMO. Unless you've personally played with one and compared it to other options, a considerable expense like that or selecting such an important piece of gear should probably not be a no brainer. I was very disappointed with the Nomad when I played with one. I found the sharp chassis edges to be unrefined and unacceptable, and in general I did not not care for the feel of the unit. Operationally, I found it to be unintuitive and disliked the interface. It may be a very capable recorder and might be ideal for some people. But for me, well, if I were to make a Mac/PC analogy, I'm a Mac guy and the Nomad felt very PC. That's not a potentially controversial analogy, is it? Anyway, my first impressions of the Nomad, hands-on, just reaffirmed my appreciation of Sound Devices gear. Your mileage may vary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Tirrell Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 start with a field mixer there are a lot of jobs that record straight to camera especially if you are starting out. You can always rent a recorder when you need it and the way things are going by the time you really been one and can legitimately afford it there will have been 2 new generations anyways. Buy the stuff now that will last you the rest of your career or near to it then go back for the recorders when you have the rest paid off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 It is a no brainier as far as price and option. Sound devices taught people will keep buying the 744T - a very outdated, not very practical unit. "disclaimer:744t served me well for years before the alternative." The freezes issues have been resolved, The only problem that remains "FOR ME" is the RF garbage spray out of nomad. start with a field mixer there are a lot of jobs that record straight to camera especially if you are starting out. You can always rent a recorder when you need it and the way things are going by the time you really been one and can legitimately afford it there will have been 2 new generations anyways. Buy the stuff now that will last you the rest of your career or near to it then go back for the recorders when you have the rest paid off. +1 Or maybe a recording version of 302/mixpre with time code reader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maplecap Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 It is a no brainier as far as price and option. Sound devices taught people will keep buying the 744T - a very outdated, not very practical unit. It's one thing to have an informed opinion and a personal preference. But making a general statement that the 744T is outdated and not practical is absurd. However, you do change your mind an awful lot, so maybe that's just the latest gear purchase rationalization. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 If I were doing true down and dirty ENG, my first choice for mixer out of all the mixer / recorders out there would be the 302. The Nomad is a no-brainer when you compare the density of features and the price / performance ratio, but if you just starting out, you should really think carefully about where you need to put your money. All the other mixer would probably be jealous too, if you got to start out on a Nomad while we had to suffer with dirty broken FP33s (some of the older mixer's here probably jealous about me starting on an FP33). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Gin Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Is the Nomad a no brainer even at this stage? No, BUT, if you are familiar w/ the workflow of another unit, ymmv. If you're going into multitrack as a virgin your ability to deal with the peculiarities of the Nomad might not be a factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 You are talking shit in the same tune as the senator. No need to get personal. I think most people will agree that 744t "the first ever SD recorder" is very outdated as far as price performance. Nomad 4 for a lot less is Faaarrrr superior IMHO. Next time you make empty accusation please provide a little more details. It's one thing to have an informed opinion and a personal preference. But making a general statement that the 744T is outdated and not practical is absurd. However, you do change your mind an awful lot, so maybe that's just the latest gear purchase rationalization. . Sent from my HD7 T9292 using Board Express Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsnd Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Nomad definitely has a learning curve to it, especially if you are just starting out on Zaxcom gear. The signal flow is fairly complex if you have never done anything like that before. If you don't have experience with any gear at all I suggest you thoroughly read the manuals to whatever gear you are considering, and use what you learned there (as well as physical/hands-on time) to decide what might be best for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maplecap Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 You are talking shit in the same tune as the senator. No need to get personal. I think most people will agree that 744t "the first ever SD recorder" is very outdated as far as price performance. Nomad 4 for a lot less is Faaarrrr superior IMHO. Next time you make empty accusation please provide a little more details. Wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 . And also again nobody ever sold 552 half price in LA and I would never sell you any of my gear for half price. Saying it is a norm in LA to buy sd mixers for half price would not make me sale mine for half price. So just drop it. What a funny vendetta. Sent from my HD7 T9292 using Board Express Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maplecap Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Rado, I think you might have mixed up your pills tonight. (Again.) Sorry, OP. Apparently Rado can't take a little humor at his expense. (Even when he invites it.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsnd Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 wait, who has half priced gear in la? I need some smqvs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maplecap Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 wait, who has half priced gear in la? I need some smqvs! I can tell you, but then you can't tell Rado. That's one of the only rules for membership in the special group. (And there's a lot of members.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 That's one of the only rules for membership in the special group. (And there's a lot of members.) I would never join a group that would have somebody like me for a member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimPitot Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 More forum beef! Why is everyone so grumpy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrider Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 I think something you should consider in a 302 vs Nomad decision is the anticipation of your future production needs of the market you are in. I have a SD 442 that doesn't work much anymore because everyone in my market seemingly wants to shoot 5D. My Deva Fusion works waaay more than my single system gear does. If you anticipate the majority of your future business being recording vs mixing, buy the recorder of your choice. Most recorders these days mix, but not all mixers record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapio Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 How about a SD 302 + Fostex DC-R302 combo? Anyone tried yet? You'd get a 2ch recorder and an excellent mixer. And if you have a situation where you need five channels but no recorder (straight to camera, typical ENG work), you could use the Fostex for channels 4 & 5. (Tape RTN in SD 302 can be switched to inputs 4 & 5.) I ordered the DC-R302 today. I'm planning to use it with small special cameras that have no usable audio (GoPro, Contour, Sony MC1P etc) and with DSLR's too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Spaeth Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Cut it, maplecap. You are neither funny nor making much sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael McQueen Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 as an owner of a 302 and a nomad its really tough to say. i'm glad i have both tho. last week i used my nomad for 5 days and this week i've used my 302 for 3 days. but if it were up to me buying new gear, i'd get a nomad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Absolutely not, IMO. Unless you've personally played with one and compared it to other options, a considerable expense like that or selecting such an important piece of gear should probably not be a no brainer. I was very disappointed with the Nomad when I played with one. I found the sharp chassis edges to be unrefined and unacceptable, and in general I did not not care for the feel of the unit. Operationally, I found it to be unintuitive and disliked the interface. It may be a very capable recorder and might be ideal for some people. But for me, well, if I were to make a Mac/PC analogy, I'm a Mac guy and the Nomad felt very PC. That's not a potentially controversial analogy, is it? Anyway, my first impressions of the Nomad, hands-on, just reaffirmed my appreciation of Sound Devices gear. Your mileage may vary. Neither is "Mac logical" with the UI. I'm ok with that though. They are complex machines with many settings, not iPods. I think previous experience is everything regarding your Nomad opinion. I found the Nomad somewhat intuitive, but I am a Zaxcom Fusion owner. I mostly had to relearn how you interface without the glorious touch screen of the Deva/Fusion, but it isn't hard. The first few times I used Sound Devices recorders, I found them to be very unintuitive with a mess of sub-menus. There is nothing intuitive about a 788T or 744T unless it was set up for you and you just need to press record. I found the Fostex machines *easier* to get running, but that's because they have 5000 external switches and dials, and frankly do a lot less than the recorders from Zaxcom or SoundDevices (software based track routing etc). That being said, if you are a good learner, both machines will make sense soon enough. Both companies offer good online tutorial videos. As for what to buy, depends on your jobs. I don't think you will regret a Nomad, but there is also a place for a 302 in your kit. A sit down interview with a boom and lav feeding a camera with a cable, why not use the 302. If you need a recorder, then the Nomad definitely is something worth trying out. It's an incredible value for what it can do. Do you have a good local sound dealer? If not, and you are about to drop thousands on gear, it might be worth spending a few hundred dollars "As a business expense" and going to NAB. Vegas always has great deals on hotel+airfare, and the expo floor pass can be picked up for free. Go get some hands on time. *if* you want a 302, it can't hurt to wait to see if SD surprises people with something new at NAB this year. If a 302 mixer replacement comes out, it would cause a lot of the existing hardware to go on the used market at a great price. That's what happened with the 442 when the 552 was announced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Moore Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Frank, I'm not sure where you are located, but there are nomads and SD products on display at audio houses. You might think about visiting a place and trying one out for yourself. There is a lot of hype that goes around about gear, and a lot of advertising. There is a big wide world of professional sound equipment out there. Explore it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Frank, I'm not sure where you are located, but there are nomads and SD products on display at audio houses. You might think about visiting a place and trying one out for yourself. There is a lot of hype that goes around about gear, and a lot of advertising. There is a big wide world of professional sound equipment out there. Explore it! Thank you, Spencer. This is the best advice ever. Even for those who are not close to any of the sound houses/dealers, a trip to one of the dealers for hands on with ANY of this gear and personal one on one conversation is the best approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogpole Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Johnpaul215 has hit the nail right on the head about Nomad and SD. Wait for something new at NAB. You can jump on all the used (still excellent) gear after people start dumping their old stuff. Echoing what others have said before on this site, "Buy what you really want to use and keep for a long time." After 40 plus years in this field, I still have my original Schoeps mikes. Every few years they get sent in for a little love and care from the factory. Although you are thinking mixer now, I hope you already have a Schoeps or high end Sennheisser at the end of the pole. Mixer/recorders are in a state of flux right now, but good mikes will really last for a long time. Ciao, Sully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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