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Eric Burge

RastOrder Cart: SU-01V

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Hi Brent, thanks very much for posting the photos, very interesting.

I'm interested to know one detail if possible please - the tray for the receiver rack 4th photo down from the top -

Is it on top of a lighting stand using a standard spigot - it looks slightly offset?

Where did you get the tray from please?

many thanks

Mick

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Hi Brent, thanks very much for posting the photos, very interesting.

I'm interested to know one detail if possible please - the tray for the receiver rack 4th photo down from the top -

Is it on top of a lighting stand using a standard spigot - it looks slightly offset?

Where did you get the tray from please?

many thanks

Mick

If you look closely at the (next) 5th picture down you'll see it's made from plywood and painted black. Shouldn't be too difficult to make on your own.

Eric

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It's attached to a pigeon plate which has been mounted to the plywood, most likely using screws.  A pigeon plate is a standard piece of grip equipment that has a male end which slides into one of the larger holes in a standard gobo or grip head.

I am using one of these on my current show; I asked the grips to build me one and I will be returning it to them at the end of show.  I put kitchen drawer liner on the top of it to cushion the receivers a bit and use one of those velcro straps to keep them secure.  I really like the custom made one that Brent has made here.

Tim

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This is a little off the topic of the RastOrder cart, which looks great, but why are you running such an exposed wireless rig?  In a "heavy metal" environment (ie big lighting/grip set up) it seems like you'd want to get your RX antennae up in the air clear of all the stands, but I'd be wary of having my whole RX investment strapped to a board that high in the air.  I guess you really didn't like the idea of RF splitters etc and remote antennas?  I can see remoting  the RX off the cart when the set is far away and/or too small for your cart to be in, but your rig seems like it could be easily damaged if left alone on the set? Weather protection?  I'm sure you've thought this all out, I'd be curious to know your reasoning on it all.

Philip Perkins

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This is a little off the topic of the RastOrder cart, which looks great, but why are you running such an exposed wireless rig?  In a "heavy metal" environment (ie big lighting/grip set up) it seems like you'd want to get your RX antennae up in the air clear of all the stands, but I'd be wary of having my whole RX investment strapped to a board that high in the air.

Ahh. Is this where the discussion veers off into review of the relative advantages of a Cat-5 rig?

Having the radios on the set where they are naturally close to the performers is probably a more effective way of ensuring good performance and freedom from "hits" than using high performance antennas and clumsy, heavy antenna cable. The Lectro Venue system is especially well suited to this arrangement because all of the performance data (battery condition, RF signal, etc.) can be sent on the Cat-5 run and received by a computer at the sound cart. This is essentially the rig that Mark Ulano has been using and promoting for the last few years. I don't use that system myself - my own radios are still on my cart - but I can see the attraction.

Since the Venue system is already a rack configuration, it would be a simple matter to put it into one of the smaller SKB rack cases to provide protection. That's what Mark Ulano does but his rig has several Venue racks plus several Aviom audio interface units so it requires its own cart.

Anyway, Brent's rig looks pretty slick to me just as it is. One ought to be able to find a place where it is close enough to the action and sufficiently out of traffic to be safe. Even if it were knocked over, the plywood platform should take most of the blow.

David Waelder

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Ahh. Is this where the discussion veers off into review of the relative advantages of a Cat-5 rig?

Having the radios on the set where they are naturally close to the performers is probably a more effective way of ensuring good performance and freedom from "hits" than using high performance antennas and clumsy, heavy antenna cable. The Lectro Venue system is especially well suited to this arrangement because all of the performance data (battery condition, RF signal, etc.) can be sent on the Cat-5 run and received by a computer at the sound cart. This is essentially the rig that Mark Ulano has been using and promoting for the last few years. I don't use that system myself - my own radios are still on my cart - but I can see the attraction.

Since the Venue system is already a rack configuration, it would be a simple matter to put it into one of the smaller SKB rack cases to provide protection. That's what Mark Ulano does but his rig has several Venue racks plus several Aviom audio interface units so it requires its own cart.

Anyway, Brent's rig looks pretty slick to me just as it is. One ought to be able to find a place where it is close enough to the action and sufficiently out of traffic to be safe. Even if it were knocked over, the plywood platform should take most of the blow.

David Waelder

I do much the same thing but feel like this gear and all the sub connections for individual RX are too exposed for my comfort level, esp re: exteriors (weather/dust) and being knocked around.  I can see the Venue in this regard since it is all closed up in its box and only has a pair of antennas.  We built our RX (individual channels as in this example) into an SKB rack case w/ its own batt, splitters etc, and it has worked very well in this fashion for several years now, and can sit on the floor (can't fall or be knocked over) and can either go with a remote antenna or the onboards as the situation demands.  The Cat 5 thing is a great idea in any case--I doubt I'll ever go to the Mark Ulano/Aviom setup but even analog you can still get 4 channels up the Cat 5 with cheap baluns.

Philip Perkins

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Since the Venue system is already a rack configuration, it would be a simple matter to put it into one of the smaller SKB rack cases to provide protection.

I can see the Venue in this regard since it is all closed up in its box and only has a pair of antennas.

I was seeing the rig in my mind's eye as a Venue system as I wrote that. Now that I'm paying attention, I see that it is a very neat installation of four individual receivers.

David

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It's attached to a pigeon plate which has been mounted to the plywood, most likely using screws.  A pigeon plate is a standard piece of grip equipment that has a male end which slides into one of the larger holes in a standard gobo or grip head.

This works as well (or better) and since it has a 5/8" receiver, you don't need a grip head with it.  It simply pops onto the 5/8" spud on either a C-stand or a light stand.

http://www.filmtools.com/58recmounpla.html

JB, cas

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Hi All,

Sorry for the delay (again)... working today, thankfully! Mick, the plywood base is actually a 1" Matthews pancake box mated to a 6" 5/8 Baby plate.

http://www.filmtools.com/matthews-pancake-apple-box-259538.html

http://www.filmtools.com/6banaonpl5di.html

As Eric surmised, I painted the pancake box and associated clamp-down hardware black to cut down on reflectivity. The 411A receivers are snugly and gently held between two foam pads with a plywood clamping top and rubber safety stops in back to ensure the receivers stay put.

The stand is a standard Bogen Avenger C-stand/grip head combo that gets a 15-lb sandbag on it for security. I use a backpack rain cover to shield the receivers from dust and weather. I am also running an 8-ch snake trunk to the remote RF station which allows for sends as well (boom op wireless comm).

David was correct in his observation that there are four portable receivers (can accommodate 6-8), and I did this to economize as I use the 411A's in a bag configuration as well. This was the sole decision to build this, as a Venue or VR Field certainly offers more elegance and protection.

The whole thing gets tucked close to set and I am generally 100' or more away. The only downside is that I cannot directly monitor the status displays or battery telemetry, but my Boom Op and I share the responsibility of monitoring/powering/moving it throughout the day.

I have to give Tom Williams, CAS credit for the design. He has been using his own custom variation of this with great success on many features.

Best,

Brent

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Thanks for the information Brent. I was interested in the platform on a lighting stand (a very small detail of your elegant rig) as I just bought one of these from Manfrotto  (pictures posted I hope but not sure if I've done it right or if they're the right size)

http://www.manfrotto.com/Jahia/site/manfrotto/pid/3221

# Made of sturdy aluminium, this 25 x 35cm platform can support up to 20kg.

# It is ideal as a projector or monitor stand.

# Color: black color.

# Depth: 25 cm.

# Length: 35 cm.

# Load capacity: 20 kg.

# Material: aluminum.

# Weight: 1 kg.

It has a slightly odd design that's not apparent from the manufacturers picture in that the large winged nut in the centre slides in a long slot and is removeable at one end and has a 3/8 inch thread on one side and a 1/4 inch thread on the other. So I also bought a spigot adapter that drops over the spigot on a lighting stand and goes to a 3/8 bolt which screws in to the winged nut. I was interested in the possibility of making something a bit lighter and with a shallower profile perhaps. The Manfrotto platform could also perhaps work nicely as a platform for a laptop on a magic arm?

thanks

Mick

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Nice job on your cart, Brent!

I looked at the Manfrotto "projector tray" before I built my own shelf from raw aluminum stock. The tray dimensions were not well suited for my particular application, i.e., laptop support and connector protection, plus if I rotate mine 90 degrees I lose a little width for connector protection, but gain space for a small keyboard in front of the MBP. Cost of 14" x 16" aluminum, under $10.

EB

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For all you SU (O1V) (and other open architecture) cart owners that have just come from a northern winter with thoughts of covering up on your minds. Here is how an SU owner in Sydney AUS handled the challenges of the great outdoors, by the beach.

RS

Rob,

We have the weatherproofing pretty well in hand - while in our day in day out

usage there's not much that can be done at the operational areas of the

carts - and you may recall in our case they are both accessed from front and

back - we have the sides well protected - and as long as the crew face those

protected sides into the wind - all the gear is very well protected - and in any

event almost 100% of locations the carts are under the grips folding

marquee type things. (the carts are faced side on to the wind pretty well

automatically - because the operators don't like the wind blowing straight at

them anyway)

The weatherproofing has developed a little over time - but in principle has

remained the same - I use fluteboard - the stuff often used by sign writers -

The material is very lightweight - and very durable and cheap - so that if a

piece is damaged or becomes dirty - it's very easy to replace.

Initially I selected the 3mm board because it was able to fit between the cart

frame and the wheels. At first I simply attached the board with Velcro dots

and used gaffer tape for the corners and to attach it to the frame along the

edges - this was very durable - it lasted half the year and would have lasted

out a full year with no more than a couple of pieces needing replacement - in

the mid year 2 week production break I replaced the top half with 10mm

polyurethane filled flutebaord called ureflute.

www.ureflute.com.au

The reason for the change was that I wanted a little more thermal insulation

for the summer and I wanted to provide a more solid cladding for the very

tough working life the carts face every day. I now use stainless 6mm bolts to

attach the board - having first inserted additional blind nuts to suit. I still seal

the corners and edges with gaffer tape. While I was at it - though I retained

the 3mm board between the wheels and the cart frame - I added nuts and

bolts to hold those too. In normal usage - and particularly usage by an

owner rather than a network crew - the 10mm ureflute would be just as

successfully held by Velcro and gaffer tape.

To make life easier I´ve made cardboard templates for each piece - so

replacing any one of them remains a simple matter.

The only weather problem the crew has now in shifting the carts from the

truck to the set if it´s pissing down - I tried a number of durable covers - but

they became an item that need care/time expended on them by the crew -

so I´ve simple replaced those with throw-away plastic drop sheets at about

$1.50 each - one use and discard - much easier.

The production is on end of year break and the carts are in the OB garage - so they´re not in full operating mode right now.

Igor

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I have also put 4 pics of Igor's handiwork at the bottom of the SU main page on my website.

http://www.rastorder.com.au/product_su1.htm

You could also mount this board with a  light bead of urethane or water based silicon, they often use that principal on motor vehicle panels. When you needed to replace it you could just cut it off with a knife.

RS

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For all the carts I have built I have considered fabricating panels that attach (and can be easily removed) to enclose what is otherwise a totally open frame cart --- sort of like having panels to turn an open frame cart into a case based cart to provide the sort of protection that is sometimes needed. I never did follow through with hard panels but I did have custom covers made for 2 of the carts. These were both canvas covers with specific panels made to be able to operate everything with the cover fitted (and the main body of the cover was secured with velcro on the cover and on the cart frame.

I only have one picture and this shows a cover made by Mike Anderson (who is a Key Grip, a friend, and someone who produces custom covers for Grip and Electric equipment).

With the present cart, v.7.0, I am back to contemplating a hard surface panel set --- we'll see if I ever really do it or not.

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

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One downside I see to hard covers is the possibility they will pop off or be damaged if there is flex in the cart while being wheeled around.

A nice advantage to fabric is that you can install zippers down the middle. or simply peel back any corner, allowing access to all areas without having to remove the panel.  I am contemplating this myself for the backside of my rack cart.  The solid rear door is nice for transit, but if I have to access the back of the gear, the door has to come off and be put somewhere.  A nice piece of fabric with a zipper down the middle would be ideal.

Robert

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Oh, interesting development these covers.

Jeff, I'd be very interested in learning details about how you had the cover made, what the process was, and what was the ultimate cost.

Chinhda and I just finished a run of covers for some of our clients. I'll attach some photos of the prototype. For the production run, we added zipper openings on the back side as well as the front, more tie-down grommets, and a color patch on the operator side to facilitate easy recognition of orientation.

These were made of a "marine grade" vinyl with a leather pattern surface and cloth backing. We found a local shop that does custom upholstery work to do the fabrication. Cost to the client is $300. (Our cost is only slightly less - we really don't make anything on these.) There is a bit of specialty work on these - cut-outs for the frame posts and the skate wheels.

David Waelder

CoverLoRezClosed.jpg

CoverLoRezOpen.jpg

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Robert... meaning no offence, but did you read the section in Igors solution - just above the ureflute url - where he says he put the first lot on with velcro dots & gaffa tape - & they lasted 6 months. This is a very simple solution, its not high tech or expensive. It possably helps a little that the SU cart is made from square framed material.

Fred from New Zealand had made a very nice fabric cover for his VK cart. I will try to upload some pics of it.

Rob S

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here is the Berlin / Kortwich solution:

http://www.filmtontechnik.de/massanfertigung.html

they use the same fabric as for their organizers.

Matthias

That is one serious cover! I like the idea of outside pockets neatly stitched in. It looks like the cover is for a cart built with the ITEM extrusions (similar product to the 80/20 profiles I used for my new cart).

- Jeff Wexler

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It looks like the cover is for a cart built with the ITEM extrusions (similar product to the 80/20 profiles I used for my new cart).

- Jeff Wexler

thats what I thought. The cart shown is just for their showroom (so far). They customize everything as needed but as I went with an closed SKB cart I haven`t used their service. But I`ve got one of their organizer`s for doing bag-work and that is really well worked out.

Matthias

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G'day...

Finished SU 24 week before Chrissie - bit different.

Carries a Mac Pro & Raid hard drive in bottom mod.

Ran rack strip down front to nearly bottom - attach rack bar there to secure above.

Top mod - mixer shelf will be used for keyboard/whatever - drawer for connecting cables & rack mount UPS in between.

Skateboard wheels on top mod for sliding top mod into station wagon.

Owner also proposes to wheel cart in on its back sometimes.

Owner does colour grading & maybe FX.

Finished in charcoal grey metalic pearl...powder coat.

Rob S

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Fine looking cart! I am a little confused by the drawer being on top (above the mixer sliding shelf) since I have always had it under. Of course, by being on top you don't have to always slide the mixer back in just to get into the drawer --- I guess it makes sense.

I will put these images up on the ever-expanding Gallery of Carts

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

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