Working on a foreign language film

[Mark Andrews]

I did a basic forum search, but it seems this topic has not be covered before here on jwsound. I have done a few shoots where some or all of the dialog is in a foreign language, and I have always found it a challenge. Later this week I will be booming for a German feature film, where the dialog will be in Deutsch.

For those of you who have worked on a film where some or all of the dialog is spoken in a language other than one you are fluent in, how does it change the way in which you work? When you are mixing, is there anything different you do to overcome the fact that you cannot understand the words being spoken? When booming, how do you learn the lines when you do not speak the language? And how do you deal with cast and crew that have a non-existant or very basic knowledge of english and struggle to understand what you are trying to communicate on set?

I would love to read any stories you have from times on foreign language sets.

~Mark.

[studiomprd]

Pimsular !

[PCMsoundie]

>When booming, how do you learn the lines when you do not speak the language?

I have found this is where experience comes into play. Watching body language and breathing patterns of the talent will give you some ques. I don't have the experience of a feature fully in a foreign language but I've done shoots in various languages. It really doesn't matter what sound comes out of the talent's mouth our job is to record it as best we can with the tools we have.

I'm sure some of our JW Sound members who have worked in Miami or Texas can answer this when working with a lot of Spanish-speaking talent on a Spanish language produciton if they don't themselves speak Spanish.

[Jay Rose]

I do not envy you folks. I've had to post projects in German, French, Cantonese, and Swedish... but I can take my time with those, and ask a translator when needed.

Trying to follow live foreign dialog for booming or mixing has got to be an incredible challenge.

[studiomprd]

the situation sort of cries out for a bilingual boomer... really.

[RPSharman]

It's very hard. If things are kept on script, then it's not as bad. The biggest problem I had was when a scene broke up and they had to go back and pick up from an earlier line. There were also problems with keeping track of what was happening. Part of getting good sound is staying ahead of the problems that can come up. Not understanding the language being spoken on set between takes was a real disadvantage.

In my situation, I had a bi-lingual boom op, so it helped a bit. But the show was all wires (three cameras) and it was very challenging to get a good mix while not understanding the language.

Robert

[studiomprd]

ok, a bilingual mixer would also be a major plus...

[johngooch]

How about phonetic sides? I would think that would help.

[Bartek]

Hey Gang,

Great topic!

i have in past worked on several "foreign" movies, and TV and have to say that I really enjoyed the experiences.

The first thing that you notice is the style of filming, when you think about it there are subtle differences of how we make movies and TV here in the States, the guys on the east coast have their way, the west coast has its way, I was really struck how different the approach to filming can be, and honestly it took a little bit getting used to.

The most challenging shoot was a Canal+ show I did for German / Polish TV Series. The crew was a German, Polish, and American medley, The Europeans spoke all three languages, so communication wasn't an issue. The Technical side of things on the other hand was a nightmare.

They shot two cameras, each camera was hardwired to a monitor and a "paint box". The sound worked as follows, The Main mixer was hardwired to both the cameras, not for audio but rather for TC and wordclock (they did not want to use lockits) He was responsible for mixing talent mics. when we did interiors we had a boom op. When we had exteriors, the boom op would become a Stereo mixer, and took a dat and a stereo mic rig to record the scene ambiance in real time, also getting a hardline TC feed from the Dialog mixer. This was and unwieldy mess! Completely impractical!

A few months later I did a Pakistani movie that was in English and Urdu. It was one of the most laid back enjoyable sets i have ever work on. Lots of playback and exquisite choreography, the crew was incredibly friendly and fun. The weird technical thing was that they did not want TC at all. Everything was shot on 35mm anamorphic with old fashion hard sticks. Playback with no TC ;-)

One interesting thing I realized was that languages have various operational ranges, and this I mean in a musical sense. Languages from the far east are on average higher pitch than western ones, and African languages are in general lower. This is pretty cool, because that means that evolutionary development of hearing for those groups ensured that there are differences of sensitivity.

I remember a study that was done in the eighties that was inspired by stereo sales. Stereo systems made in Japan at that time and sold in the west emphasized the high mids to the point that if you A-B'd a Japanese made stereo with an American or European brand you could hear it. That discrepancy was eventually attributed to language. This means that our Post friends should probably take that into account when mixing for a movie to be released in Asia.

Curiosity did get the better of me once when I did a Chinese film, I pulled out the Sanken CS-3e, that I rarely use in normal circumstances, and I was stunned how well Characters sounded, the mic seemed to emphasize just the right ratios of the frequency spectrum, it was pretty, pretty cool!

Moving on to the language challenges. The one common thing about languages is that each has a specific rhythm, If you can learn the rhythm it makes things a lot easer. The harder thing to pick up, but very important is what happens with intonations, most English speakers are tone deaf because english is a very "flat" language. If you don't know what is being spoken you need to be able to process any clues you can, intonations in most european languages can determine the difference between a question, an order, a statement, sarcasm, etc. I found that to be very helpful when dealing with European languages I don't speak, it hints on where dialog transitions might happen.

Asian languages of course take that to a whole different level, where several definitions of "the same" word exist through a change of tone, but since i have no idea what is being spoken, that doesn't really help with deciphering who will speak next. But here is the thing, a good boom ops have a big bag of tricks, when it comes to figuring out who will speak next, in general I think those guys are great people watchers. Language is only a pice of the puzzle, not the entire puzzle

[RPSharman]

How about phonetic sides? I would think that would help.

We had English sides, but phonetic sides seems like an interesting idea. Doesn't help the language issue that's not on the page, however.

My show was 25pgs per day Spanish language soap opera for Univision.com - it was pretty crazy.

[Olle Sjostrom]

I've done a lot of commercials in strange languages, and instantly feel inadequate. Luckily commercials are stuck records so you know what you're getting. The hard part is knowing whether or not a sound is a word or just a sound, for instance if a talent has a dry mouth or a clogged nose, in my

Language or in English I know what it should sound like and I can do something about it (have talent drink water, have an apple, rinse nose) but in a foreign language I just can't tell. And noone else will either... :S

[al mcguire]

Great post Bartek

it made my day

al

[taylormadeaudio]

Great thread!

I've only mixed a couple features in foreign languages, and they were both very challenging. They were also both extremely rewarding projects though, and left me with a real sense of accomplishment looking back.

The first was a film directed by Wayne Wang called 1000 Years of Good Prayers. The dialog was mostly Mandarin and Farsee, with a little bit of English mixed in. On top of all that, half the camera crew spoke Swiss German. We did have translators, which helped immensely, and everybody was patient whenever the language barrier became an issue. Rehearsals definitely helped us with the cues. We actually did an on-set ADR session one day with actress Feihong Yu when we learned she would not be available for her previously scheduled session. The scene was emotionally charged and contained a 2 1/2 page "rant" directed toward her father (Henry O.) It was really amazing to see someone loop that well (she was really good at it.)

The second project was a Korean / Mandarin feature called Late Autumn (Dir. Tae-Yong Kim.) The story was about a Korean con artist (Hyun Bin) who met a Chinese girl (Wei Tang) on a bus -- there was some English dialog, but most of it was either Korean or Mandarin. We had sides each day that included the phonetic representation of the Korean and Mandarin dialog, but there were a couple of scenes that were extremely challenging -- one of which was a 10-page dinner table scene in Mandarin with 12 speaking parts. We spent the entire day on the one scene, so there was ample opportunity to get all the dialog "covered" with not just the lavs (as many as 7 at one time), but the boom as well. The scene included a heated family argument, and there was a lot of ad-libbing going on, but we had many takes from many angles, and we were always pretty clear as to who we were covering with any given shot(s).

Mixing both of these films, I have to admit that I found myself much more attentive to the actual sound quality as a result of not speaking the language. I do have a very limited Korean vocabulary, which did help with the second project, not so much with my ability to pick up cues (though it did help), but more with the sense of diplomacy and cultural "bridging" that developed. All in all, having forgiving boom mics (Schoeps CMC6/41 & CMiT5U's) really helped, but the lavs definitely saved our asses more than once, so having good lav mic-placement, and strong reliable RF was paramount.

While both projects were quite challenging, they remain two of the most rewarding projects I've ever done... and the catering / craft service was the greatest

~tt

[Richard Thomas]

Something worth bearing in mind it that written German is pretty much phonetic when you know the rules- this could be useful:

http://www.pauljoycegerman.co.uk/pronounce/

[Geoff Tirrell]

I've done it, actually did a 1 hr live uplink show in spanish last week. Wish it was german I can actually understand that and speak it at about an eliminatory school level. Something about how you can decipher something but actually conjugating sentences is a whole other thing. That and me being horribly out of practice.

I would second what was said about the rules and intonations involved with various languages, I have done a number of jobs for both japanese and spanish speaking clients and it does help if nothing else in making things a little easier.

[RadoStefanov]

Hire a boom op who speaks the language.

[taylormadeaudio]

Hire a boom op who speaks the language.

...yeah, in a perfect world. I suppose in some cases it's possible. Otherwise, I suppose a Craigslist ad would garnish the desired individual?...

"Wanted: Experienced Union Boom Op. Must speak [insert language here] and be able to prove residence in [insert locale of production here] as producers are not willing to pay travel, housing or per diem for a position they think a PA can do. Pay is probably (no, definitely) not comensurate to the desired skill level. Call:

1.800.YA.RIGHT

or send resumè to:

www.itsnotlikely.com".

~tt

[Mark Andrews]

...yeah, in a perfect world. I suppose in some cases it's possible. Otherwise, I suppose a Craigslist ad would garnish the desired individual?...

"Wanted: Experienced Union Boom Op. Must speak [insert language here] and be able to prove residence in [insert locale of production here] as producers are not willing to pay travel, housing or per diem for a position they think a PA can do. Pay is probably (no, definitely) not comensurate to the desired skill level. Call:

1.800.YA.RIGHT

or send resumè to:

www.itsnotlikely.com".

~tt

Hahaha love it!

Alternatively they could just buy one of those "learn German in an hour" DVDs?.. thats the next best thing, right?

It's my first day on the job tomorrow. Judging from the call sheet and english script I have, it's only half a page of dialog between two characters. Think I can manage that in any language.

~Mark.

[chrisnewton]

I work on French (Canadian) shows a lot. My French still stinks though, I'm embarrased to say. Missed a lot in high school. When I'm mixing drama we always have a bilingual boomop. My script sides are in French. The totally bilingual scriptie is a godsend. working language on set is a combo of both languages (Franglais?) Never any problem. When I'm working by myself on other French language shows, mixing and booming, I often go by the rhythm of the speech to aid in swinging the boom. Funny how you can tell when it's a good take or not by the "feel", even on unscripted programs. With good actors you can really tell when they've nailed it. Go with the flow Mark.

Chris Newton

[TheAudioSynthesist]

I've mixed features in Hindi and Marathi (both Indian languages) and found some things difficult while other things were not. It helps to learn some words before the shoot but not necessary. My boom op speaks English so that helped a lot. He pretty much got me through the logistics of the shoots and translated everything for me. Mixing was easy. I monitored the rehearsals and during takes I pretty much knew what to expect. I tried to memorize the dialog phonetically and emotionally and almost treated it as music. Ups and downs. Influctuations. Tones. Forget language. It was all about "vocal sounds" for me at that point.

The challenging part was not knowing if actors missed a line or if they delivered improperly but then again, that's not just our job as mixers to catch that.

I also do a lot of stuff in Spanish back in Texas but at least I speak a little bit of that and understand what is happening.

Like I said, if you can familiarize yourself with the language first that will really help you out a lot.

All the best!