Rates

[John Blankenship]

To clarify my earlier stance, (although this may appear to be a contradiction) I think that low budget independent films can be a worthwhile learning ground. A great many of these productions -- from student films to "credit-card" movies -- could never afford to pay a proper crew rate. In this scenario, part of the value you're getting in return for your services, is experience.

I don't think there's anything wrong with this, with one caveat: Make sure the deals you're doing don't impact the industry negatively -- because that will eventually affect you, your fellow mixers, and the rest of the industry. If the production has funds, but is simply low-balling you, that's a negative impact. One of the best ways to qualify this on low budget films, is that all crew should be paid proportionally. If a production can only afford to pay half rates, it should be fairly implemented across the board. Fairness is the watchword here.

However, if these are commercial productions -- corporate, commercials, cable shows, network, properly funded films, etc. -- shows that actually have real budgets, you're "fouling the nest" if you participate in cut rate practices.

I just wanted to clearify the distinction.

[Den Nic]

It would be great to work full time as a 3rd or 2nd on big stuff, but unfortunately there's not enough of that in Toronto to keep me going. It IS a very important part of my career and I jump at the opportunity when I can work in those position, etheir union or non-union, but to keep working mixing and booming are what I got to do. My rate is lower than other people who have years of experience and are established in Toronto, but I'm doing low budget stuff, and getting experience, and learning, and if I'm quoting high rates I'm not going to get any work, period. Even since I started doing location back in July of last year I've been increasing my asking rate, in conjunction with landing jobs that are offering higher pay. Eventually I'll climb the latter, increase my rate as I gain even more experience, buy gear, and become an 'established' mixer and boom op, but RIGHT NOW I don't have the experience and reputation to charge those rates.

Here's a good question: What you all YOU think I should be charging?

I hear a lot of 'That's aweful!, Subway Tuna!' etc etc negative rate bashing, but I don't hear a lot of constructive and useful comments like "Hey man you should be charing X amount for that gig".

My kit is a single Channel of 416 w/Rode Blimp, Ambient Boompole, into 302 and then into a Zoom H1 at line level, with my Petrol bag and Harness, overall my kit cost me $4500 with tax. I get the production to rent Sennheiser G2s of G3s lavs (1 or 2) at cost from Trew Audio or the other rental shops in town if they have the money and if they're needed. I have 1 year of experience in Location Audio (including experience on bigger shows as a 3rd) and have a diploma in Audio Recording technology.

What should I be charging for Bag and Boom on short films, web series, etc. in your own opinion?

Looking forward to your thoughts.

[old school]

One's POV on the 1st day in the business is a lot different than one's POV on your last day in the biz. That is unless that happens to be the same day.

My advice (free) is keep the big picture in mind at all times and have faith in yourself. Do the right thing in the right way as you learn n earn. Everybody, like every market and niche, is different. It is up to each person to to say yes or no to a gig. Don't sell yourself short.

CrewC

[syncsound]

To all - Published rates for the US, both union and non-union for different markets: good idea, bad idea?

[John Blankenship]

... That is unless that happens to be the same day.

...

CrewC

Thanks for my LOTD!

[Den Nic]

To all - Published rates for the US, both union and non-union for different markets: good idea, bad idea?

Good idea! And Canada too?

[PTA]

What should I be charging for Bag and Boom on short films, web series, etc. in your own opinion?

Looking forward to your thoughts.

I don't know if you'll have much luck asking people what you 'should' charge. Hopefully as much as you can get. But I think the original point of the thread was people being undercut on gigs that DO have the budget to pay higher rates. Student films, some smaller indy films, etc. that don't have the budget to pay the going rate will always be there. If you decide to do them, that is great as they can serve as valuable learning experiences. I don't think anyone here is going to argue with you about doing gigs like these for lower rates. It is the ones that can pay but find someone who is cheaper. If you have the gear (or can rent it and know how to use it) and you deliver good sound, then you should charge what an 'experienced' mixer would charge. Hopefully that helps...

[Toy Robot]

To all - Published rates for the US, both union and non-union for different markets: good idea, bad idea?

YES. See Post #40 above.

[geordi]

That BECTU article still exists, now it is updated for 2012. The proper way to read that, since all the rates are in pounds sterling - Simply forget the symbol at the front and substitute the "$" symbol.

Why do I say this, when exchange rates are well known? B/c if you look at the show Top Gear, they feature cars on there quite often that are sold both in Europe and in the USA. These would be the exclusive supercars mostly, but they have done this with RVs and vans and regular cars. The point? They might talk about a Chevy Corvette for about 50,000 pounds selling over there... Lo and behold, it sells for about 50,000 dollars HERE. Exchange rates don't enter into it, for whatever reason.

[Alexander Miles Burstein]

I don't know if you'll have much luck asking people what you 'should' charge. Hopefully as much as you can get. But I think the original point of the thread was people being undercut on gigs that DO have the budget to pay higher rates. Student films, some smaller indy films, etc. that don't have the budget to pay the going rate will always be there. If you decide to do them, that is great as they can serve as valuable learning experiences. I don't think anyone here is going to argue with you about doing gigs like these for lower rates. It is the ones that can pay but find someone who is cheaper. If you have the gear (or can rent it and know how to use it) and you deliver good sound, then you should charge what an 'experienced' mixer would charge. Hopefully that helps...

I see! Very helpful and I understand the thread more clearly now.

[Chris Woodcock]

I am with BECTU, they want the industry to treat sound the same as camera in terms of pay equalitity, The Boom operator should be level with the focus puller and the mixer should be level with the camera op.

The minimum weekly rate for boom op on a low budget feature (which they consider 10million or less) should be 800 a week and for the mixer it should be 1200

I recently finished a documentary at 275 a day

*EDIT* actually just seen the 2012 rates they are slightly higher I quoted last year will post up new ones later

[Jeff Babb]

BECTU,

mixer it should be 1200

Interesting. So even using the exchange rate that comes to $1925/week. $390/day. What is the cost of living where BECTU is recognized?

[John Blankenship]

Keep in mind those are minimums. Experienced mixers and boom ops should make more. Also, the post didn't address gear rental which can be computed via a simple percentage formula.

[Max Hirtenstein]

hmm what percentage does everyone use for their kit rental?

[syncsound]

That BECTU article still exists, now it is updated for 2012. The proper way to read that, since all the rates are in pounds sterling - Simply forget the symbol at the front and substitute the "$" symbol.

Why do I say this, when exchange rates are well known? B/c if you look at the show Top Gear, they feature cars on there quite often that are sold both in Europe and in the USA. These would be the exclusive supercars mostly, but they have done this with RVs and vans and regular cars. The point? They might talk about a Chevy Corvette for about 50,000 pounds selling over there... Lo and behold, it sells for about 50,000 dollars HERE. Exchange rates don't enter into it, for whatever reason.

As I understand it, BECTU's jurisdiction is the UK. While one can do the exchange rate, is the market comparable? I mean, there are sure to be variations in rates across the US as well (LA/NY non-union rates versus, say, Lincoln, NE non-union)?

[VASI]

In Greece for Film and TV (included equipment, rent or your own doesn't matter):

Sound Mixer: Daily Rate / 161E ($204)

Sound Mixer: Weekly Rate / 670E ($852)

Sound Mixer: Commercial Daily Rate / 215E ($273)

Boom Operator: Daily Rate / 107E ($136)

Boom Operator: Weekly Rate / 510E ($649)

Boom Operator: Commercial Daily Rate / 107E ($136)

Sound Utility: Maybe a guy from Tongo or Tanzania. I'm not a racist but it's true. We don't have a sound utility guy. Boom Operator is a guy to run for all (about sound).

This is the low rates from Union Greek Technicians for Cinema and Television (www.etekt.gr).

The English version of this site is in under construction (three years now).

For eight hours job. Or twelve. It depends.

[studiomprd]

" he likes to just "keep rolling" to try and find some magic "

?? based on what, exactly ?? He is an idiot!

" it's my first feature technically "

so what! what you'll probably learn is how real movies are not made!

" having my name on this project could potentially hurt me. "

pretty much impossible... how could it. it probably won't help you, but certainly won't hurt you.

also, probably no one will ever hear of it...or hear it.

" Published rates for the US, both union and non-union for different markets: "

never gonna' happen.... but, OK, you start!

[geordi]

Syncsound: Very true points, yes BECTU has no jurisdiction outside the UK market. Yes, there will be variations in rate across the UK in places populated more by sheep than people, versus populous places like London.

The point was made by John B. that these are minimums - I agree with that as well. If you read around the threads here from recent gigs asking for mixers, the NUMBER they are mentioning isn't too far off these stated minimum NUMBERS from the UK. Which goes to my point - swap the "L" for the "$" and you can approximate minimum rates for us here in the Colonies, which should at least be a starting point for those people who ARE asking this question because they NEED to ask the question: The newbies who lack the experience, but might not want to undercut the established mixers.

Since we (in the USA) don't have an industry- or country-wide group willing to state numbers for the newbies to use... Maybe we should pass this info along to them, so at least they aren't TOO far under the experienced-mixer rates?

[syncsound]

For my own convenience, I've published a rate card on my website:

https://sites.google.com/site/syncsound/rate_card

Of course, I can be flexible depending on the situation. Also, emailing this to clients and requiring a reply email stating that they agree to those terms helps keep things from getting contentious if they end up being surprised with anything on the final invoice.

[Chris Woodcock]

So the rate for a mixer on a low budget feature per 5 day week is £1492 and boom op is £1279. The rate does not include gear rental

Here is the link to the document http://www.bectu.org.uk/advice-resources/library/218

[Marc Wielage]

hmm what percentage does everyone use for their kit rental?

I don't know about "everyone," but I seem to recall when you rent (say) a camera or other gear from a major-metro rental house, I believe it's computed roughly at 2% of the retail cost per day. So if you have a $10,000 recorder, that would be roughly $200 a day. 4 days typically count for a one-week rental. All this stuff is negotiated.

I'll generally try to negotiate a package deal with the client, but it's a good question as to how much to include and at what point the client is expecting too much.

[John Blankenship]

The figures I've heard others mention were from 1% to 2%, and more toward the lower figure for a package. Also, that typically would not include your backup gear unless it's something required by the production.

[Eric Toline]

2% seems right for camera gear. An Arri Alexa body is about $70k and rents for around $1500 per day. The usual suspects line card rental rates for audio gear would appear to be higher than 2%.

Eric

[Brian Maier]

So I sent my resume to a Mandy's job in Toronto. And this is the what followed.

"Looks great whats your rate?"

"$450/10 + $200 Basic Kit(2 wires, boom, mixer) If your needs require something else we can adjust the kit. Let me know what kind of project this is(Film, Reality, ENG, Doc)? Double system sound or straight to camera?"

"It's a feature film but that's the highest rate I've ever been quoted by a sound recordists no one charges 600 a day."

"What have you budgeted for sound? Are you planning on hiring a Boom Operator?"

I haven't heard back... Anyway Im based in Ottawa so maybe out of the loop for Toronto, but im curious what are the going rates there?

[John Blankenship]

That's the highest rate they've heard of because they're playing in a different sandbox.

Tell them, "You're not buying eggs. You're buying experience, skills, and talent."