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Shooting past wrap time.


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In situations where there is no rate for overtime, how many people here will voluntarily shoot beyond wrap time if behind schedule?

im on a set now, was booked for 12 hour day but know we will go over. I don't like causing problems but am very tempted to stop rolling and pack up when it hits the end of the 12th hour.

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Tough call. How many extra hours? How long is the project? Does it happen often? How will you're walking off the job affect your relationship with production in the future? Try talking to production and negotiate an OT payment then make your decision.

Eric

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Take the easy way out. Don't fight, don't storm off, don't throw a fit or argue.

Well prior to hitting the 12 hour mark remind them in a friendly way what your overtime rate is. When they insist you're at a flat rate, remind them in a friendly, non-confrontational way that your negotiated rate is for 12 hours.

You don't have an overtime rate? You do now. Your day rate divided by 12 -- times either 1.5 or 2, depending upon what you think is fair in this particular instance. Overtime covers just your labor, not your gear rental.

If it's a multi-day shoot and they balk at your mention of overtime, one approach might be to offer an olive branch by saying "I'll go along with you on this one, but after today I'll need overtime if I'm going to do more hours than we contracted for."

Part of the important thing here is, you're gently reminding them that this is an agreement that they entered into. Be sure to make your conversation friendly with a spirit of teamwork. i.e. You're mentioning O.T. as a friendly gesture to help them remember when they'll incur extra charges. You're on their side.

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Yeah Mark this is a tough one. I know this doesn't help your current situation but I now (after being in your situation previously) always make a point to mention overtime when taking a job. Especially for the jobs that have extremely limited budgets. Hope they where reasonable with you.

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Just because "they" can't make their day, it is not your problem.

I remember well conversations like: 'well its a flat rate and we're not paying OT, because there won't be any OT'..(we won't be going OT)...

well fine, if we won't be going OT, then you'll have no problem agreeing to my OT rates! (or to my leaving after we finish ST!)

SAG-AFTRA's lowest contract allows an actor to work for free for 12 hours, but past 12, there is OT !!

" there is no rate for overtime "

actually, if you were booked for xx hours at $yy, then there is an OT rate after xx hours...

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Come on Mark,

you mean to say that the "great people" you met on set, fun times you had, and really good food aren't payment enough?? :lol:

I guess this is one of those times where it really does "depend" on the situation. My first low budget/indy feature had me working 13-14 hour days. Yes, it sucked and I really didn't feel like being there but I bit my tongue and kept smiling. Out of that film I was able to get better jobs from the Producer. In fact, the next film he gave me starts in a few weeks and I'm getting paid a decent wage this time around. Surely there are those gigs in which the Producers will take all they can if no one speaks up. I guess it all depends on where you are at in your career, how comfortable you feel challenging them, and whether or not you care to work with them again. I've done plenty of those crappy jobs to earn my chops and there have been times when I demanded better treatment because I certainly knew that I didn't care to work with them again nor feel like I didn't have other options available to me. I am a team player but being taken advantage of is something you shouldn't have to put up with. As John B. had mentioned, you are better off addressing this right away so that everyone is on the same page and things don't get worse.

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I had it happen many years ago when I was gripping. When it got to 10 hours and the production said it wasn't paying any overtime the other grips packed the truck and left. I was the grip truck driver and since they had rented the equipment for the day, I had to stay with the truck to make sure the equipment got back to the rental house. They had use of the equipment but no workers. I watched as they struggled through the next couple of shots and then they called wrap. We all got paid, but it was weird watching from the sidelines. It is a really tough call. You just have to stand by your decision.

Scott.....

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This sounds like a lack of planning on somebody's part and should not constitute a problem on yours. I am very forgiving and will as a practice not make a big deal if the last shot puts us over by 15 minutes especially if it is something caused by a fluke/act of god and I have seen some doozies over the years. Including a college basketball game that went into quintuple overtime back when I did multi cam-switched shooting.

But if somebody actually plans to work right up to the line the get what they get, I also make sure that people know that I do charge overtime after 10 when they book me and I send them a copy of my terms. It is one of the major differences I see between the film and tv world as I am reminded of a call a few years ago where a producer told me everybody is working a 12 for a 10 hr rate now. Now they are trying to avoid paying for portal to portal, mileage and OT.

You need to be careful about this as it will end up burning you as more and more costs get shifted to you. I do understand the limitations of shooting within specific timeframes and the needs of reality tv shows for long days to avoid bringing in a morning and night shooter in some cases. But all too often I see the 12 hr day abused by the incompetent and unscrupulous.

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I wouldn't walk of the set. They'll remember that long after the quality of work has faded from their memory. I would however negotiate an hourly rate next time, equivalent to what they pay you for the "flat" day. Then when they go over, you're still on the clock. If that's not agreeable, don't take the job. Because clearly they intend on going over.

As a great man once said, "Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — You can't get fooled again."

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Like Geoff, I normally let things slide and will give plenty of slack without worrying if things have gone tits up. However this particular production seemed to adopt an unprofessional approach in every single area; things were running behind because they didn't seem to even have a clue how to deal with the most basic tasks. At the time of my original post i'd worked about a 10 hour day, during that time i'd been offered the grand sum of one drink and a packet of crisps to eat. Not even a tuna sandwich! This was the 9th day of the shoot, but the first (and only) I am involved in. Several of the crew were annoyed at the lack of professionalism from the production and they had been working up to 16 hours a day. I knew it was bad when the first "problem" occurred - the lead actor was 2 hours late to set because production had forgotten to call him in. To me these are basic things, and I should not be working crazy hours because they can't sort it out!

Not too long after making my opening post, I finally got a second with the director/producer (yes, it was the same person doing both..) to remind him my booking was 12 hours, and I needed OT. After 14 hours on set today, they called wrap still having a whole scene incomplete from the schedule.

After the shoot, the DP actually thanked me for putting some pressure on them and in the process ensuring we got to go home before midnight.

George Bush I believe

It's better I don't comment on this, being from the other side of the pond. But I love how the thread developed into this!

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"Yeah, I'll work for free this time, but next time I better get paid"

And we (as a group of "professionals") wonder why we get crapped on as an industry.

I find it a sad commentary when I read thread after thread about silly Craigslist ads, insulting quotes from production department heads, lamenting and moaning by the membership body as a general whole about getting treated like crap and/or underpaid....Then in a thread like this, I see guys willing to cave-in to the same unreasonable treatment.

One does not get the right to gripe about a lousy pay plan within the industry, then concede to a lousy compensation plan nicely delivered in a silk wrapper called "normal"....

Mark, I'm not specifically aiming at you...I'm just venting/sounding off on a thread ..Please do not take this as a personal attack.

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In situations where there is no rate for overtime, how many people here will voluntarily shoot beyond wrap time if behind schedule?

This goes back to the importance of getting some kind of a deal memo prior to the shoot. A very simple "bullet point" contract: x dollars for X hours of work, equipment to include A, B & C. And then add a proviso for O.T.

I'll generally shine 15-20 minutes, but there are limits. Even with some pretty uptight producers, I've submitted invoices for O.T. and always gotten paid for it (once or twice with some grumbling).

What is open to interpretation is amount of time given for wrap up and transportation. There are some who bill portal-to-portal, from the moment they get on the road to the moment they return, while others don't. I think there's no wide agreement on this, except in union situations.

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Marc is dead right.

Rule number one when negotiating a contract. Set your client's expectations clearly and early. You don't have to be rude or mean spirited, but you do have to be crystal clear and firm in your stance.

Any area not covered with the client will be interpreted by the client in his own favor. It is human nature.

Everything is friendly and negotiable -- up front --.

I will deliver to you X product for X rate, with X equipment.

Variations on that will cost X dollars for time, X dollars for kit and/or extra bits.

My billable time starts at (insert pre call specs here) and my billable time ends at (insert wrap out specs here)

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I'm in the same boat right now. I'm biting the bullet on this one because I know they don't have the money, I like the project, and some people aren't even getting paid :/

Clearly they don't have the scheduling experience either. You will be amazed how quickly they learn to keep the schedule moving along when they know doing otherwise will hit them in the pocketbook.

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Losing money is an AMAZING motivator for the people actually paying the money out.

Making a movie is expensive. Making a movie without planning out EVERYTHING in advance is REALLY REALLY expensive.

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