MT Groove Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 I recently purchased a used (1 month old) Mix-12 from Pro-Sound Services. The faders were OK at the time. They were slightly gritty but was usable. I used it for a few days indoors w/o issue. However, after 2 days outdoors in a slightly dusty environment, the Faders became virtually useless. They became rough and made it difficlut to mix. By the end the day, I started using the onboard knob faders on the Fusion itself. I called Zaxcom tech support and Brijen told me I can spray some compressed air to try to clean it out. It didn't work. I then found out that these newer Mix-12 does not use the P&G faders, thus the P&G fader cleaning proceedure does not apply here. I sent to unit back to the mothership and the Faders were replaced under warranty. (Thank you Zaxcom!) I used the Mix-12 indoors for the last couple weeks indoors with no issue. However, after 1 day outdoors in a slightly dusty environment, I am staring experience rough/gritty faders again. Although at this point it is still usable, I feel it's only a matter of a few more days out in the field before the faders become unusable again. Is there a way to do regular cleaning/maintenance on these faders? Brijen at Zax mentioned that unlike the P&G faders, these faders are not really user serviceable. I will not be using the Mix-12 in the desert or anything. It will just be in the normal field conditions where some dust is unavoidable. Any advice would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirror Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Just replaced all 17 faders on my Yamaha O1v96v2, cost $700. My guess is that your faders are a lot like mine (minus the automated part). I asked for the old faders and took them apart when I got home. Instead of riding on a rail, the fader slider has copper "feeler" thingys that lightly touch a board which it slides across. It has a light coating of grease on it. When grit and dirt get in to the board it clings to the grease so that now you have an abrasive mixture that eats away at the board as you slide your pot. Soon it wears a groove and contact is broken. Don't know what to tell you but to minimize exposure to dirty environments. My next purchase will be a PSC solace board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 I believe the pertinent information is: " these faders are not really user serviceable. " which is probably why they were replaced rather than "serviced" There is good reason why real P+G sliders (pricey) are preferred... CIAG, the Cramolin folks make a fader cleaner (Blue) you might try spritzing some in after the compressed air cleaning...YMMV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pindrop Posted May 21, 2012 Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Hmm! Don't know the answer to your question sorry, but would be interested to know whether you heard when the use of P&G faders changed to another kind? And / or why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT Groove Posted May 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Yes I will try to avoid harsh environment but this unit is designed to be used in the field, not a studio. Like I mentioned, this unit has been outdoors 1 day after new faders were installed. Needless to say, I am very disappointed. From what I know, the older Mix-12 did use the P&G faders. Why and when this was switched, I'm not sure. Yes Senator, P&G faders are pricey, but so was the Mix-12 considering it is just a controller and not a real mixer. I will try to locate some of that fader cleaner you mentioned. Thanks for the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Any idea when the change was made? Is there an easy way to know which faders I have without opening the whole Mix12 up? I have used mine outdoors, but not in harsh environments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kurland Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 IF you have P&G, it says so on the fader handles. My Mix-12 has these, but they get gritty anyway. They're fairly easy to disassemble and clean, but it is a PITA. I just bought some semi-official fader lube and that seems to help make them work like new. Before, a cleaning only gave a few weeks of good service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg sextro Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Not sure about the "grittyness" but if you contact P&G, there is a service rep in the states who can sell you some solution (graphite based I believe) that will work better than anything. The de-oxit stuff will cause your faders to work fine for a while, and then start to get gummy again, whether you are using the faders or not. 1694 Calle Zocalo, Thousand Oaks, CA, 91360, United States Tel: +1 805 529 2496 Fax: (same) call before faxing Email: dale@manquen.net Website: http://www.manquen.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kurland Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Email: dale@manquen.net Website: http://www.manquen.net Thats the guy! Very nice and has detailed instructions too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg sextro Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Thats the guy! Very nice and has detailed instructions too. Exactly Peter - Dale I think has written many articles just on cleaning faders! Super nice guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT Groove Posted May 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Brijen from Zaxcom mentioned that these new faders on the newer Mic-12 are conductive plastic based. Will Dale's cleaning solution work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 The CIAG blue fader formula is designed for this... of course YMMV, but I've been happy. P+G faders are conductive plastic guts, too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kurland Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Brijen from Zaxcom mentioned that these new faders on the newer Mic-12 are conductive plastic based. Will Dale's cleaning solution work? The P&G contact surfaces were also conductive plastic. The 'grittiness' and sticky issue is associated with the metal guide rods and the sleeves on the moving part. Those are what I've successfully cleaned and used the lubricant on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT Groove Posted May 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Senator, I went to CIAG's website and can't seem to find the Blue Fader Cleaner you recommended. Any other source for this stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT Groove Posted May 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 OK, my Mix-12 has the BOURNS PTS01-12P-103B1 faders. They're cheap and Carbon Based. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Bourns is not a cheapo brand BTW.... phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg sextro Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 You can use a basic contact cleaner on all the parts. As Dale will tell you, don't use the lubricant on the contacts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT Groove Posted May 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Bourns may not be a "cheapo" brand, but these faders can be bought in bulk for $5-$11 a piece. When I bought a mix-12, it was mainly for the 12 faders. The rest of the features are added luxury. If the faders feels rough after 1-2 days in the field, it's frustrating. Like I said, this was under normal outdoor conditions. Not a single camera had issue with the dust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT Groove Posted May 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Greg, I did email Dale and he responded. I will be calling him tomorrow to purchase some P&G silicone oil. Will see if it helps. Thanks for the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 " can't seem to find the Blue Fader Cleaner " It is pretty easy to spot, even if they don't include the word "blue" http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/CAIG-LABORATORIES-F5S-H6-/200-205 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg sextro Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Let us know the results Sammy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT Groove Posted May 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Senator, I happen to find that Deoxit F5 at the local Guitar Center. They are distributed by Hosa and is around $10 a can. I didn't realize it was the same stuff you were talking about. I tried it on 1 fader. Didn't seem to work. Will try the P&G silicone oil next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vale Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 Anyone here knows where I can find colored knob faders for Mix12 (bourne faders) in New York? I've seen from pictures here than many of you use them instead of the all black ones. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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