Jason Gillet Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Hi everyone, I'm new to this board and I have a challenging situation I'm trying to work through and thought this would be a great place to seek some advice. I have a situation coming up that has 2 musicians in the back of NYC cab one is an Oboe player the other some sort of percussion (no clue what it is yet). I need to record them performing in the back of a moving cab. I asked around and was given a suggestion of taking 2Trams and mounting them on plexy on the ceiling or on the back of the seat if there is a hard divider. I've also thought about mounting a KMR81 above the mirror. I currently own a KMR81, a couple of trams and couple of B6 lavs. I have a budget to rent the right equipment if neither of these are the correct tools. Does anyone have any suggestions? or does this all make sense and should I go with it. Thanks. Jason Gillet Gillet Productions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Do a tech rehearsal with the musicians in the cab, that way you can get your micing positions figured out. I'd suggest considering cub-01s or similar boundray mics. Look into planting mics on the back of the cab divider and or headrest, or arming something up from the floor. Have camera there to work out positions that will be out of frame and still sound good. Sounds like a fun gig! Have fun with it, and get creative! Oh, and make sure the windows are up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 1 Shoeps 41. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harris K Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 FWIW, I recently had great results planting a team inside an acoustic guitar. May have options along that line of thought. That said, I think one well placed hypercardiod will probably sound great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Gillet Posted May 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Great thanks for the info. I will look into both options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Feeley Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Well I'm no expert, but I have recorded a guy singing and playing guitar in the back of a sedan (Toyota Camry, iirc), and a couple guys singing in a pickup truck. Both came out OK. And my son plays oboe (though he's more into his sax). So your key challenge, as I see, it will be positioning the mic(s) to give you good balance or isos for your three instruments (oboe, percussion, and taxi). If you/production gets to choose the particular cab you're using, great; you may be able to find a "quiet" one. If you think percussion might overpower the oboe, consider getting an oboe/clarinet/etc clip & mic. The clip is basically a velcro strap with a flexible gooseneck attached. The mic sits just in front of or above the oboe's bell. DPA and others make clip mics (crap; I think I have the name right). If you think the oboe player will be pointing his/her instrument down, the clip mic or a lav or a something right in front of it might give you more isolation from (or at least more oboe over) the percussion and car. Beyond that, sound like you're on the right track. Go for a well-placed hyper (or somesuch), but also try to get (sorta)-isos of each instrument just in case... Jason, this sounds like fun. But I'm pretty much just winging it here. Would love to read more suggestions from others. And I'd love to know what you end up doing. Have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gilbert Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 As Jim says, balance is the key, and that's down to mic placement, iso's might help, but a well positioned hyper (or similar) will give you a good result. I've done similar things a few times, with no prior warning (the wonderful world of docs!) And always got good results with some combo of MKH60, CS3e and a few Cos 11s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 If you can get a cab like this instead of the normal Ford Crown Vic you'll be better off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 I'd use a Schoeps MK4 (cardioid) capsule rather than an MK41 (hyper-cardioid) capsule for a couple of reasons: 1) The wider pattern will be better for picking up both players from a short distance. 2) No rear pickup lobe to get unwanted bounce off of a partition or whatever's behind the mic. You might even consider the MK21 (wide-cardioid) for capturing two people sitting apart in that tight of space. If it were me, I'd start with trying the MK4 and decide from there, or maybe a 41 for each of the performers and mix them. If I had the space to do it, I would seriously consider using two MK41 (or MK4) Schoeps in a tight XY configuration (a GVC on each would help with the space limitations). The XY configuration would put each performer on axis and give the option of using the result in Stereo (I would consider that post might bring the stereo width in a little) or of mixing the two together (a tight XY pretty much eliminates phase cancellation issues). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Rose Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 FWIW, I recently had great results planting a team inside an acoustic guitar. ... Was it a full team (mixer, boom, and utility) or did someone do double-duty? I've fit a team inside a tram -- that is, a small above-ground city transit train - but don't think that's what you meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 As you see, there is a variety of (good) ideas... but srep back, please... what is the purpose of this recording ?? knowing the specific goals affects the choice from among so many possibilities. Frankly, in general, this situation has a lot of potential limits as to how good it could possibly sound, or really will sound... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Gillet Posted May 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Hi all thanks for the great response. I'm not 100% sure of where this footage would be used but it's a promo. There will be a camera shooting the talent in the cab and due to the nature of the situation I probably won't be able to be in the cab with the camera and talent. I've been told it's a "large" cab with no partition. Large enough for the camera to get on the floor. I put a couple of the cub-01's on hold but I'm thinking now that I have slightly more info the Mk41 or MK4 might be the winner on this one since the space is a lot less tight than a typical crown vic where there is virtually no leg room. I'm going to have them do a clean pass with out the car moving so that I'll have clean tracks and a more "controlled" situation. We can always add in traffic noise later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 This is recorded to the camera mic. Not bad. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 1 Shoeps 41. CrewC +1! Keep it simple! phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmahaAudio Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 I've fit a team inside a tram -- that is, a small above-ground city transit train - but don't think that's what you meant. How many Trams would it take to fill a tram? Thousands? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macruth Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 gosh, at least make sure it's a good stereo mic, because it's music, sit in the front with a seatbelt and mount mic preferably above or below a quiet camera, please gosh no lavs or cub01's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gilbert Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 gosh, at least make sure it's a good stereo mic, because it's music, sit in the front with a seatbelt and mount mic preferably above or below a quiet camera, please gosh no lavs or cub01's Lavs work very well with some instruments, and I'd go for a good 'mono' mic over most 'stereo' mics for this situation any day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macruth Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Lavs work very well with some instruments, and I'd go for a good 'mono' mic over most 'stereo' mics for this situation any day. okey dokey, since i'm part of a nice international world music documentary crew on a regular basis i'd just have everybody plan on having my schoeps MS stereo rig working nicely according to camera perspective in a rather fine acoustic environment in this case having fun with the musicians, we may have just jumped into the cab... you got time to wire the car? mine sounds great every time, have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Gillet Posted May 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Well I put in my order today for 2 Schoeps mk41 in XY config. I scratched the cub-01's. I may also try something else along with that config and record both Iso just for fun and see which sounds the best. Thanks for all your help again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 I've never tried this and would appreciate thoughts from those that have. What about a figure 8? I would think with good placement you'd get both sides even and full. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Best of luck Jason. I have to say if I were you, I would hire a good sound man or woman in your area to add the most important element to your job. A brain between two good and practiced ears. Just my free advice. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 I would repeat a familiar way of saying what Crew just said: 'It isn't about the clubs, it is about the golfer' (aka <tiger> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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