Boom Recorder with Mackie Onyx firewire card?

[imagist]

Has anyone used Boom Recorder with the Mackie Onyx optional firewire card for Onyx Small-Format Mixers (ie. the 1220, 1620, or 1640) successfully?

Thanks

[takev]

Hi,

Maybe not on this forum, but I have at least one customer that uses it.

I think the isolated tracks are pre-fader.

Cheers,

  Take

[old school]

Hey imagist, I have and run Boom Recorder w my m box at work as a back up and it works great on my g 4 1.68(?)laptop. In my project studio I run a Mackie onyx 1640 and w the same g 4, using the firewire port, have run B R with 12 tracks recording drums for 20 plus mins. without any problems what so ever. This is not much of a test as you can tell, but all twelve tracks imported into pro tools and were in sync and I then went to work editing them into a drum track I could call my own. I like the product/software, B R is rock solid.

CrewC

[Marc Wielage]

Has anyone used Boom Recorder with the Mackie Onyx optional firewire card for Onyx Small-Format Mixers (ie. the 1220, 1620, or 1640) successfully?

I've used Metacorder with both the 1620 and the Yamaha 01X. I actually think the faders and mike preamps on the Mackie are better, and I found I didn't use the extra features of the Yamaha very often. Metacorder is functionally very similar to Boom Recorder, since they both use the system audio set-up within OSX. But Yamaha's MLAN software is pretty wonky. I had to call Yamaha tech support for help, and it turned out my problem was an old software driver, plus they sort of hide the MLAN downloads in a hard-to-get-to portion of their website. Mackie is easier to set up, at least for me.

The 1640 is a huge mixer, though (24") -- deep enough that I think you'll have trouble fitting it on most carts. I opted for the 1620 mainly for that reason. I actually think the Yamaha 01V96 is better overall, plus has better faders, but again has a problem with depth. As long as you have the space (and extra bucks), the 01V96 is great.

There's quite a few mixers using the 1620 with Metacorder, and it's often discussed on their Yahoo group.

--Marc W.

[Hugh Holesome]

Has anyone used Boom Recorder with the Mackie Onyx optional firewire card for Onyx Small-Format Mixers (ie. the 1220, 1620, or 1640) successfully?

Thanks

I'm using it with a 1220 right now.  Successfully?  Well that depends on if the transfer house likes the dailies...first shot with this set-up.

Otherwise runs like a champ.  <Deep Breath>

Does anyone out there have a preference of jamming T/C or running it on a track?

Camera Dept doesn't like the cable hanging off the Deneke full time?

Ideas?

[Philip Perkins]

I'm using it with a 1220 right now.  Successfully?  Well that depends on if the transfer house likes the dailies...first shot with this set-up.

Otherwise runs like a champ.  <Deep Breath>

Does anyone out there have a preference of jamming T/C or running it on a track?

Camera Dept doesn't like the cable hanging off the Deneke full time?

Ideas?

How are people running Mackie mixers as the front end to a computer recording system (as the convertors) clocking those convertors to TC?  As far as I can tell, there is no external clock input into an Onyx mixer, and bringing TC thru an audio channel (as required for Boom Recorder) doesn't affect the Mackie's convertors at all--its just another audio track.  As for jamming TC--if you are using the camera TC why not use a wireless link to you?  If you don't want to use the wireless all the time you could still go wireless and use that signal to jam a TC gen that you have (if you are in free-run TC) and then rejam whenever you want (after cam battery change etc).

Philip Perkins

[Hugh Holesome]

With regards to TC using Mackie 1220 FW and Boom Recorder...Cam Dept had misunderstood and set Deneke to 30Drop which was why I had to keep re-jamming.  A quick call to Deneke HQ verified the proper way to set for 30ND to match my internal settings and all seems to be 'better' to say the least.

They actually had good things to say about BR's internal clock and said constant feed should not be necessary, just the occasional jam.

TC coming from SLATE btw not camera.

I just set the track numbers 1 higher as BR uses 1 track for TC so a 4input recording is actually set as a 5 track file.

TC comes in on a balanced audio in so it has to be at least Input 3 on the mackie and some are Mono ins -track 5- so to "5 track" you need to jam on 3 first, then record your source after jamming.

[Jeff Wexler]

Somewhat off topic but I am wondering if this digital mixer from Presonus could be a contender up against something like the Mackies with Firewire.

http://www.presonus.com/products/Detail.aspx?ProductId=52

"StudioLive 16.4.2 is the most powerful and flexible sixteen-channel digital mixer the world has seen. Loaded with sixteen high headroom XMAX microphone preamplifiers, built-in 22x18 FireWire recording and playback engine, “Fat-Channel” processing with 4-band EQ’s, compressors, limiters and gates, DSP effects, six aux buses, four sub-groups, extensive LED metering, mixer save and recall, channel-strip save/recall/copy/paste, talkback and more, breaking new boundaries for music performance and production."

[Jeff Wexler]

After looking over the Presonus, it appears that most of the digital part of the mixer relates to DSP effects and so forth, the only digital interface is via Firewire (which is fine for BoomRecorder, Metacorder type setups, similar to what would be done with a Mackie).

-  JW

[takev]

I just set the track numbers 1 higher as BR uses 1 track for TC so a 4input recording is actually set as a 5 track file.

TC comes in on a balanced audio in so it has to be at least Input 3 on the mackie and some are Mono ins -track 5- so to "5 track" you need to jam on 3 first, then record your source after jamming.

For the timecode to be read the only thing that is needed is that its input is assigned to an empty channel. So you don't need to actually record that timecode channel into a file. You can un-assign the timecode channel from the file using the patch-bay.

Some edit application do not like a odd number of tracks, something to watch for.

Cheers,

  Take

[Philip Perkins]

With regards to TC using Mackie 1220 FW and Boom Recorder...Cam Dept had misunderstood and set Deneke to 30Drop which was why I had to keep re-jamming.  A quick call to Deneke HQ verified the proper way to set for 30ND to match my internal settings and all seems to be 'better' to say the least.

They actually had good things to say about BR's internal clock and said constant feed should not be necessary, just the occasional jam.

TC coming from SLATE btw not camera.

I just set the track numbers 1 higher as BR uses 1 track for TC so a 4input recording is actually set as a 5 track file.

TC comes in on a balanced audio in so it has to be at least Input 3 on the mackie and some are Mono ins -track 5- so to "5 track" you need to jam on 3 first, then record your source after jamming.

BR's internal clock?  As opposed to the clock driving the computer or, more importantly, the clock driving the convertors?  How does an application have a clock?  What is clocking the sample rate of the Mackie console vs. the TC of the Denecke?  Is its internal clock as accurate as Denecke's?  Has anyone tested this?  How long are you going between jams?  How long are your takes?

Philip Perkins

[Hugh Holesome]

For the timecode to be read the only thing that is needed is that its input is assigned to an empty channel. So you don't need to actually record that timecode channel into a file. You can un-assign the timecode channel from the file using the patch-bay.

Some edit application do not like a odd number of tracks, something to watch for.

Help me clear up a math question then.

If I have 3 tracks recording; Boom Lav Lav; and BR adds a virtual track for TC...would an edit app consider that 3 (odd) or 4(even)?

I'm enjoying all the file/folder and other patching options but I'm starting to get the 15yr old with the Corvette feeling.

The bulk of my prior work has been 2 channel camera mixing.  BR so far has been able to let me handle the extra variables this project brings.

[Hugh Holesome]

BR's internal clock?  As opposed to the clock driving the computer or, more importantly, the clock driving the convertors?  How does an application have a clock?  What is clocking the sample rate of the Mackie console vs. the TC of the Denecke?  Is its internal clock as accurate as Denecke's?  Has anyone tested this?  How long are you going between jams?  How long are your takes?

Philip Perkins

Sorry for the nomenclature if I even spelled that correctly.

I was merely pointing out that Deneke's understanding however limited of Boom Recorder was that, once jammed, BR held code pretty solidly and a constant TC track was not necessary to keep sync.

[Darren]

There is no "virtual track" for t/c.  Just a timestamp.

-dB

[Philip Perkins]

Sorry for the nomenclature if I even spelled that correctly.

I was merely pointing out that Deneke's understanding however limited of Boom Recorder was that, once jammed, BR held code pretty solidly and a constant TC track was not necessary to keep sync.

BR can jam itself to incoming TC, but the sample rate of the recording is still determined by the convertors.  My question for people driving Mackie Onyx boards is how you square the clock rate of the convertors (which are part of the board) with the clock rate of the TC which is coming from somewhere else, and then to BR.  If BR jams itself to the TC, then isn't the clock of the convertors determining how well the TC will hold sync?  And the clock and sample rate will stay aligned with each other over several hours?  Or is the BR TC,once jammed, looking to the computer CPU for its clock?

Philip Perkins

[takev]

Hi,

You do not need to record the timecode signal to a track, once Boom Recorder sees a timecode as a channel it will add a timestamp to the metadata of the audio files.

Be aware there are edit programs out there that do not like a odd track count in audio files. In this case you should add a silent track to the audio file.

How well Boom Recorder keeps sync depends on the quality of the sample rate of the converters.

[Hugh Holesome]

BR can jam itself to incoming TC, but the sample rate of the recording is still determined by the convertors.  My question for people driving Mackie Onyx boards is how you square the clock rate of the convertors (which are part of the board) with the clock rate of the TC which is coming from somewhere else, and then to BR.  If BR jams itself to the TC, then isn't the clock of the convertors determining how well the TC will hold sync?  And the clock and sample rate will stay aligned with each other over several hours?  Or is the BR TC,once jammed, looking to the computer CPU for its clock?

Philip Perkins

My Mac and BR handle the TC.

The Mackie board is strictly an audio input for the TC coming from in our case, the slate.

Balanced (TRS) input that is.

[Philip Perkins]

My Mac and BR handle the TC.

The Mackie board is strictly an audio input for the TC coming from in our case, the slate.

Balanced (TRS) input that is.

Yes, I understand that.  But it seems like the Mackie convertors are unconscious of the TC passing thru them as audio.  How do the Mackie convertors and the TC get clocked together?  The BR TC follows the clock of the convertors, but those convertors dont seem to be clocked to anything but their own internal clock (I don't see an external clock connection).  The two must be clocked together for long term sync to hold, like for a concert show etc.  If there is a way to externally clock a Mackie I'd love to hear about it.  The recorders we've been using, standalone and laptop-based have methods for clocking themselves to ext WC or TC, which has worked great.  If it could be done with a Mackie Onyx then that would be cool too, but I would like know how.

Philip Perkins

[Marc Wielage]

My question for people driving Mackie Onyx boards is how you square the clock rate of the convertors (which are part of the board) with the clock rate of the TC which is coming from somewhere else, and then to BR.

I had an 11:00-minute film take with Metacorder once (only one), and it stayed in sync perfectly. But this was using a Denecke GR-1 external timecode generator (which also fed a DAT backup).

I'm not convinced that timecode referenced only to a computer's internal time will be stable enough. But I would bow to Take's expertise here.

I have seen zero problems in regards to just using internal reference for word clock on the digital Mackie Onyx mixers and Metacorder. I could see some possible potential problems with a 29.97 sound and a 23.98 digital camera, but only if the mixer fed digital audio directly to the camera (or to a digital recorder like the Deva).

We routinely reclock digital signals all the time in post just to compensate for problems like this, but in the real world, I haven't found it to be a real issue yet.

I'll see if our staff engineers can weigh in with an opinion when I'm back at my day job on Tuesday.

--Marc W.

[takev]

Hello Marc,

I don't use the clock of the computer to keep sync, I just look at the number of samples.

As long as the clock of the audio converter doesn't drift, then Boom Recorder doesn't drift.

Take

[Philip Perkins]

Hello Marc,

I don't use the clock of the computer to keep sync, I just look at the number of samples.

As long as the clock of the audio converter doesn't drift, then Boom Recorder doesn't drift.

Take

Yes.  The issue is how to keep the clock of the convertors from drifting.  My question has and is how you achieve this with a Mackie Onyx which has no external clock port.  Holding sync well enough for 11 min is something I can do with MOTU boxes, but holding sync for an hour (or in my case, perhaps closer to 3 hours) requires clocking everything together.  So does staying in sync with a jam synced camera or slate for half a day, as is usually done.  Since the price point of the Mackie is fairly low: it is really an MI product like MOTU and RME,  I'm wondering how Mackie can afford to build more accurate clocks into their mixers than these other companies and if anyone has any test data to show if they do.  It would be GREAT if they did, but so far no one has come forward w/ a good test of this.

Philip Perkins

[Hugh Holesome]

Quick question regarding Boom Recorders sound log.

Am I missing a setting or menu that would allow the most recent recording to be topmost on the log?

And/or make that window resizable?

I also track a paper log for easier note taking and after so long I have to scroll to the bottom after every take to rectify notes...

Thanks in advance

Hugh