Robert Li Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 OK, so, came off a set last week. I'm angry at the DP. I'm angry at the camera. The DP for being a douche and calling me unprofessional for not owning a smart slate (apparently, a "real" professional owns one), and the camera for its inability to hold a time code (RED ONE MX). So, now that I am thoroughly pissed off, I am thinking of buying that slate next week, just to pummel the DPs face with it. What would you guys recommend? I see the Denecke has more heft than the Ambient, so is bound to make a greater impact. But in all seriousness, I think the Ambient ACD301 RF looks super tasty, but it's not cheap and I haven't seen it in use very often (at least not in the circles I run), or the Denecke TS-3EL which I have seen more of (albeit run down), but don't have the same expandability as the ambient system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 Ambient ever time, but I am in Europe!! sb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimPitot Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 Digi slates are supplied when they are budgeted for and payed for by the production. Hire one in when it is required, although most people seem to own their own as the ROI is quite favourable. A 2nd hand TS-2 will do you proud if you decide to buy. I wouldn't worry about the 'DP' - he sounds like clueless arsehole, and also a bit of a bully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Bacon AMPS Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 Sounds like the DP needs to grow up a bit. I'm happy to supply any piece of kit providing production are paying! The only time I provide lit FOC is when it makes my life easier. Ambient would be a good choice but the more cost effective long term could well be the new Timecode Buddy system and use it with an iPhone or iPad?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 I went with Ambient due to its wireless capabilities, I think because the first job that I needed it for was a music video. The wireless range of the unit is not stellar. I mostly use it in generator mode, so just jam it like I would a Denecke. I was on a shoot recently where they wanted to do some playback plus production sound. I recorded the playback track on my recorder, and cameras slated with the playback track's timecode. Suddenly the scene turns into dialogue and I switch my machine from playback to record, and at cut, the slate is now displaying TOD timecode and the cameras grab a tail slate... pretty cool application of its wireless abilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Li Posted June 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 Sounds like the DP needs to grow up a bit. I'm happy to supply any piece of kit providing production are paying! The only time I provide lit FOC is when it makes my life easier. Ambient would be a good choice but the more cost effective long term could well be the new Timecode Buddy system and use it with an iPhone or iPad?! damnit... u know... i used to have an ipad then i gave it away, before all this awesome stuff starting coming out for them... sigh... I think i might start making enquiries monday about getting the ambient, b&h has the tc-3el and acd301 at close to the same price (give or take a couple hundred), but with the distribution situation as it is in australia, who knows, could be thousands more for all I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWilson Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 Do try the local people in Aus, I bought an ambient slate recently and the price wasn't much more then if I has ordered it from overseas. You will also have to factor in the import tax for goods over $1000 and the back up support should anything go wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Li Posted June 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 oh BWilson PLEASE let me know where you got yours from, closest place to me atm that has pricing on their website and not just price on enquiry is john barry and its 2430 on their website Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTA Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 I too am in the market for a slate and was wondering people's thoughts on the Deneke vs Ambient. I'm a quite attracted to the wireless link of the Ambient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Orusa Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 If Ambient still sells the same wireless TC system they did five years ago, the one that integrates with their slates, forget about it. I owned the slate, tx and rx. The tx and rx units aren't very small or light and can't be externally powered, so you're stuck using 9 volt batteries. Plus, I was really disappointed with the range. I even sent the system in to Ambient in Germany to change frequencies, with no improvement. I couldn't get the system to transmit the TC off of a Sony Eng cam once, while my SD 744t would take a hardwired signal without blinking. And why do they put XLR connectors on them? I've never seen a camera or location sound recorder with TC via XLR connector(s). The slate itself is okay, but I much prefer the Denecke slates. The design of the back panel handle makes it somehow easier to operate, they have the lovely backlit displays, and there are lots of internal options. As an American it's much easier getting it repaired/serviced. Of course, that doesn't help you. In general I think attaching units to slates for wireless timecode is unnecessary and more trouble than it's worth. If you really want to, go with the Zaxcom ERXTCD. Thin, light, runs for a long time on AA's... Just my experience, Mark O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 If Ambient still sells the same wireless TC system they did five years ago, the one that integrates with their slates, forget about it. I owned the slate, tx and rx. The tx and rx units aren't very small or light and can't be externally powered, so you're stuck using 9 volt batteries. Plus, I was really disappointed with the range. I even sent the system in to Ambient in Germany to change frequencies, with no improvement. I couldn't get the system to transmit the TC off of a Sony Eng cam once, while my SD 744t would take a hardwired signal without blinking. And why do they put XLR connectors on them? I've never seen a camera or location sound recorder with TC via XLR connector(s). The slate itself is okay, but I much prefer the Denecke slates. The design of the back panel handle makes it somehow easier to operate, they have the lovely backlit displays, and there are lots of internal options. As an American it's much easier getting it repaired/serviced. Of course, that doesn't help you. In general I think attaching units to slates for wireless timecode is unnecessary and more trouble than it's worth. If you really want to, go with the Zaxcom ERXTCD. Thin, light, runs for a long time on AA's... Just my experience, Mark O. Mark, the Ambient wireless timecode may have changed a bit since you used them. They run off AA's, and timecode input/output is via Lemo 5 pin. Though, they operate on the same frequency as wireless key fobs for cars, which means while they're running, no one can get into or lock up their cars in the area... I much prefer the wireless functionality of the ERXTCD as you mention, but I'm looking closely at what Ambient are bringing to the table with their Clockit Network and the new wireless-capable ACL 204. FWIW, I own a Denecke TS3-EL that either runs by itself, or with anERXTCD velcro'd to the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewFreedAudio Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 I have a couple Denecke slates and they have been great. I have never used the Ambient slate so I really can't make a comparison. I have an ERXTCD velcroed to the back of each slate and when I need to jam them I simply flip on the ERX unit long enough to jam then I flip it back off. Doing it this way I'll go a few weeks with daily use before the ERX batteries need to be replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Li Posted June 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 So essentially it would be the same thing if I had erx units for both the camera and a denecke slate and jam it to a unit attached to my recorder providing master clock. I really need to send to camera because i've been working on mainly RED shoots lately (hmmm, well... just in general) and I would not trust the clock in that to boil an egg. @justin haha ok thats pretty funny I cant decide whether thats an upside or downside (ok, its probably a downside, but that's still pretty funny) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 So essentially it would be the same thing if I had erx units for both the camera and a denecke slate and jam it to a unit attached to my recorder providing master clock. I really need to send to camera because i've been working on mainly RED shoots lately (hmmm, well... just in general) and I would not trust the clock in that to boil an egg. @justin haha ok thats pretty funny I cant decide whether thats an upside or downside (ok, its probably a downside, but that's still pretty funny) Just to be clear, if you had 3 ERXTCD units on 2 cameras and 1 on the back of your slate, you would need a Zaxcom IFB transmitter in your bag/cart. That means either an IFB100 or a QRX (if you're using Zaxcom radios this makes the most sense) with the QIFB option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Norflus Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 So essentially it would be the same thing if I had erx units for both the camera and a denecke slate and jam it to a unit attached to my recorder providing master clock. Correct - as long as you are using the ERXTCD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Li Posted June 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 yeah thats kinda of what i was thinking. so essentially what I would need, and I was looking up the zaxcom range, or what I would like (haha wishlist) would be: 1x denecke slate 2-3x erxtcd's for camera's and slate 1x ifb100 for my recorder 1x trx942 for my boom op (hehe ok thats wishful thinking) it would essentially be an overhaul to my wireless kit, i might as well take an ifb receiver for conty as well. oooh... this is getting expensive haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 yeah thats kinda of what i was thinking. so essentially what I would need, and I was looking up the zaxcom range, or what I would like (haha wishlist) would be: 1x denecke slate 2-3x erxtcd's for camera's and slate 1x ifb100 for my recorder 1x trx942 for my boom op (hehe ok thats wishful thinking) it would essentially be an overhaul to my wireless kit, i might as well take an ifb receiver for conty as well. oooh... this is getting expensive haha You'd also need a UHF RX for your TRX942. Just to make it that little bit MORE expensive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Orusa Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 Mark, the Ambient wireless timecode may have changed a bit since you used them. They run off AA's, and timecode input/output is via Lemo 5 pin. Though, they operate on the same frequency as wireless key fobs for cars, which means while they're running, no one can get into or lock up their cars in the area... My Ambient slate used AA batteries and had a Lemo TC connector, but the tx and rx units looked like this and used 9 volts. They have a new system now. I can't comment on how it works. I can understand the need for wireless timecode, I'd just rather not use it and hope I never need it. Editors tell me that the timecode on the slate gets them close, but the clap gets it dead-nuts on. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Pender Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 Hey Rob, I'm investing in some erxtcd's soon to go with the nomad although I won't be buying a slate until I get more request's on jobs. That DP sounds clueless to me, unless production request's one and are willing to pay for it don't provide it. Simple slate and/or a guide track works fine for RED when there is a tight budget. anything ambient or denecke will be good but I think I'll be going zaxcom to fit nicely with nomad. As stated, anything over a grand runs the risk of import tax's too. Check out timecode buddy too, looks interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Li Posted June 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 hey jack, nice talking on the phone today haha everyone is on here, yeah that is what i normally do, dumb slate + scratch track, and I haven't had any complaints before, it's ok, that was a singular incident, if it was getting really common I would have been like... oh, well I suppose its something I am just supposed to have in my kit. Anyway, let me know how the zaxcom system works for you, I was making enquiries with soundequip... they were oddly standoffish, but persist I will, I've already had a chat to georgina at jbarry about it, and yeah I was talking to a mate sound recordist of mine who is looking at buying the TC buddy to go with all his apple stuff. Unfortunately I offloaded all that when I came to the realisation I was a complete klutz and drop anything with a large touchscreen... brick phone for me And yeah, I agree its a luxury, but I hope, and I have heard it will turn into a nice money earner for me, got some film shoots coming up so, can battletest it there I suppose. Anyway, hit me up if you need me for anything or just a hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris McCallum Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 Robert talk to Ross at Lemac Sydney he had bothe the Ambient and the Debecke in stock when I was there on Friday. I have the Ambient and it works beautifully with my Nomad rig but everything they say about teaming the Denecke with the ErX is true as well. Lemac are planning an end of fin year sale where you might save some $$ as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Li Posted June 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 oh sweet i have ross's number ill give him a call again i got all my mics from him start of this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisH Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 I am really surprised to see so many people saying it is not expected to bring a timecode slate. I guess I just take it for granted cuz I only work on narrative stuff. I can't imagine the day starting without jamming slates and handing them to the 2nd ACs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisH Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 I also am at this stage and I think I am gonna go with the Ambient for several reasons. 1. I have a 788t which also uses an ambient timecode clock, same clock means more likely to stay in sync. 2. Its the same clock as the Alexa which is the best video camera out there in my opinion. 3. Wireless capabilities for the future. 4. I just realized that it can be square and that the funny trapezoidal shape is only from an extra face plate. Honestly as shallow as it is this was the biggest failing of it for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 I also am at this stage and I think I am gonna go with the Ambient for several reasons. 1. I have a 788t which also uses an ambient timecode clock, same clock means more likely to stay in sync. 2. Its the same clock as the Alexa which is the best video camera out there in my opinion. 3. Wireless capabilities for the future. 4. I just realized that it can be square and that the funny trapezoidal shape is only from an extra face plate. Honestly as shallow as it is this was the biggest failing of it for me. 1: not really-- a good clock is a good clock, the brand makes no diff in this. I use Ambient+Denecke+other gear all the time, no probs. 2: again, sort of not relevant to how good the clock is, but good gear anyhow 3: now we're getting somewhere, but I will the Ambient system talk to Zax or etc, I think you'll have to choose...? 4: I don't think that would be a problem for anyone phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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