Parker Brown Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Hey folks, I'm working a presenter led show in a couple of weeks, and one of the shoots is in a bat cave. Everyone, including the presenter, will be wearing some kind of mask to prevent histoplasmosis. The two options are 1) a 3M paper/cloth mask with a filter that looks like a surgical mask or 2) a respirator that covers the whole face with a clear shield and an inner rubber mask over the nose and mouth (pics attached). I've worked with the paper mask before (animal autopsy) and it's intelligible but sounds like a hand over the mouth, but I'm curious as to whether anyone has any tips/tricks/advice about this situation. Feels like a long shot to me, if he's wearing a mask it's going to sound like he's wearing a mask, but maybe someone in the interwebs has an idea. Thanks, Parker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Yes they will sound like they are wearing a mask. Upside--you can hide the mic in the mask! phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeheel Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 The respirators can make all kinds of crazy squeaking and farting noises, if you have a choice, make sure you get the quietest one for your host. The mic can sound pretty good inside the mask , it sounds weird, yes, but it can work all right. (your mileage WILL vary depending on the mask style and placement of the mic- make sure you have time to experiment) The other issue is the noise the crew is making - if you can get away with it, all the crew should wear the cloth ones, since they are silent. It's one thing to listen to a single host speaking through a respirator, but listening to an entire crew gasping and wheezing through them is a nightmare. Good Luck! Brent Calkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Martin Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 On another note, if the host's lines are heavily scripted and mostly set in stone, one option would be to also get wild lines later (or before) without wearing the mask. (Definitely get some cave room tone!) Since the mouth is covered lip-sync is a non issue. Obviously if the host is improvising the whole time, this is not an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker Brown Posted July 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 Well, it turns out we're definately going with the full face rubber mask, and unfortunately Brent, we'll all be wearing them. Something about enough ammonia to kill you in 20 minutes. They've sent me a mask to fuss with and it looks like I might have to bore a hole in it, place the mic inside and seal it with some silicon or something. Maybe someone has an idea? I can't comprimise the seal of the mask and I'm not sure but it's possible that even the cable of my B6 could do that if I run it out of the side. Much experimenting. I'll post with what I think works best in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeheel Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 Yeek. Good luck. Although I have been in public washrooms that I'm sure had enough ammonia to kill you in 20 minutes... Maybe the hole in the mask and use some joe's sticky stuff or equivalent to seal it. That way last minute mic position changes can be accomodated, the silicon might be a little too permanent. Cheers, Brent Calkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 I'd be wary about doing anything that might possibly compromise safety.... and what Mr. Martin said... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VM Posted July 3, 2012 Report Share Posted July 3, 2012 Off topic : nice to read you Senator ,your hat missed us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 All good answers! Make your UPM / director / producers very aware of these problems that will affect your results!! mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cujo Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Building on the safety issue, boring a hole and then sealing it back up again places ALL the risk for infection, disease, death or injury SQUARELY on the person doing said boring and sealing. It's a risk I'd weigh very carefully before moving ahead. I don't have a good answer for how to get a mic inside the mask without compromising to some extent the external seal, and I'm sure that a tiny hole with a healthy dose of silicone caulk or some such goop would probably work without a hitch, but I'd avoid that unless you can get someone high on the food chain to sign off on it absolving you of liability. I wonder how a mic fastened to the air escape on the mask would work ?? It would probably sound like Darth Vader with a sock in his throat, but it's probably the closest you can get to being in the mask without breaking the seal. -- On the other hand, unless these are pressurized masks with an external air supply, I'm thinking that perfect air tight seal might be a insurmountable challenge anyway..... Maybe a thin lav wire slid under the seal and taped exceptionally well would work..... . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHall Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 Maybe a thin lav wire slid under the seal and taped exceptionally well would work..... I don't know how that's any different than boring a hole. Might be worth talking to the mask manufacturer, but I think any mods done to a mask to accommodate a mic is going to be a risk factor. Talent is not going to sound too good if they're asphyxiating or otherwise collapsing due to poison gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Martin Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 How about a communication system designed for Scuba diving? Saw this in another thread here about recording dialogue of divers. http://ots.mwrc.net/en/category.php They make the "Buddy Phone" which is an underwater communication system (inside the mask) that has a receiver with audio outputs for monitoring and/or recording. Believe it is hardwired but also have a wireless option. Maybe you could modify this system to work with the provided mask? Here is a link outlining the many films and TV programs that have used their products: http://www.oceantechnologysystems.com/film-tv/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 I think any mikes like a B6 under there will sound boxy and suffer from breath wind You need some tests mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Babb Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 Many scba and other respirators have a diaphragm that helps transmit audio through the sealed mask. (note the louvers in the face piece) It allows the firefighters or hazmat techs to communicate. You may find that putting the mic outside this diaphragm will give you useable audio. If there are contaminants in the environment you may want a mic and mic pack that can be decontaminated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek H Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 Maybe this is stating the obvious but have you tried mic'ing the person normally on the chest? Maybe this is a useable option. Like was mentioned above it can't completely seal out sound and this way you'd possibly avoid alot of the mask noise that would be picked up with a lav inside the mask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 " I'd avoid that unless you can get someone high on the food chain to sign off on it absolving you of liability. " have production buy the mic of your choice, PT, and a connector ... have wardrobe or props (whoever obtains the mask) arrange to have that mic installed properly mount (or have mounted) the appropriate connector to the installed mic, without disturbing the installation they have arranged. in doing this create an email trail that also holds you harmless from any consequences from the mic, its installation and use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker Brown Posted August 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Job done. With the approval of the higher ups and our cave guide, who had seen it done before, I punched a tiny hole in the side of the mask, ran a mic cable through, sealed the hole with silicon and placed it inside the innermost breathing chamber just above nostril level. I tried a B6 and a COS-11s. The B6 sounded horrible, lots of reverberant buzzing. The COS-11 sounded very nice. Just Darth Vader'y enough to sound cool, but perfectly intelligible. Here are a couple of pics I took in a rush as I was taking it apart on the pavement at the airport. The first pic you can just make out the fuzzy inside and the cable by my thumb. The second pic is after I had razor bladed the silicon off. The second best solution would have been to jam a mic up the respirator exhaust with a wind muff. Not as good, but would do in a pinch. Thanks for all the input, especially the reminder to keep the liability in order. On a brief side note, the only problem in the cave was that in a certain chamber one of my wireless hop (SR) channel's levels started rising and falling very regularly, like a sine wave, roughly 30dbu. In the heat of it I couldn't work it out, but when we left the cave and the problem vanished I figured the cave shape was causing phasing of the signal, strengthening it and weakening it in a regular pattern. I think if I had changed the channel I could have solved my problem. Maybe worth a re-post. You think that was the issue? Anyone seen this before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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