Jeff Babb Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 I understand you get what you pay for. Is anyone familiar with these units? Any comments? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/460224-REG/Audio_Technica_ATW_1821D_ATW_1821_Dual_Wireless.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudioMTL Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 Look into used older IFB like Comteks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason porter Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 The last time I heard anything about this system, it had a problem with antenna switching making an audible click. You would probably be better served by a couple G2 or G3 systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProSound Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 System is no good not built well very little headroom either use 2 G3 systems or a (2) Lectro LM tx and a SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nika paniashvili Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 those AT units have poor sound an range from what I experienced. used g2's would be a better option imo. http://en.audiofanzine.com/wireless-microphone/sony/utx-b1-6264/medias/a.play,m.218860.html this beats both. again - in my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Kittappa Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 It's true, grandma's wisdom- you get what you pay for. However for the cost of the AT system you'd be better off with Sennheiser G2 or G3s.- tried and tested units for wireless on a budget. I used to use them before I invested in a Zaxcom hop and they were adequate for many shoots so long as I didn't push the range. I believe there is a Sony unit that would also outperform the AT system for about the same price as a G3, but I haven't used it so I couldn't comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordi Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 If you are paying retail, sure, they are not so great. The range might not be as strong as a Comtek, but for microphone use, the headroom is just fine for my uses so far. Do they click when changing antennas? Not that I've heard, at least on mine. The range is somewhat better with 1/2 wave antennas, but if you can be within 50 feet of your actor working from a bag or even closer while booming too... Range isn't your problem if you are having wireless hits. As for the build quality - The RX are probably built TOO well, metal cases and solid construction for something that will be shrouded in a sound mixer's bag or in a metal BEC box on a camera. The Tx are plastic body, but still fairly robust. Are you looking for an RX that can survive skydiving onto concrete without an actor or a parachute? I would suggest... You take better care of your equipment. These will easily survive with anything that your actor will also survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Berzins Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 I've been able to pick up those dual-channel systems for $500 used. At that price, they're more than worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 I looked very carefully at these, and concluded that if I was buying new that 2 G2 systems were a better bet all around (incl resale). I really didn't like the size and the powering of the AT RX--the beauty of the G2s is that you can almost go all day on 2 Alk AAs each, and the two little RX can be rigged in more weird ways called for by ever more strange cameras (I should say that I very rarely work with full-size "ENG" type cameras anymore, like that have capacity for RX mounting plates and external power taps). In my comps the G2s were a little quieter, although both fail the "key test". If you have a line on some ATs used at a good price I'd think more carefully about them, but there are always deals on G2/3s on Ebay etc etc--there are just so many of them out there. phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordi Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 What exactly is the "key test" you mention? That is a new one on me. As for camera mounting options, if they show up with a large enough camera (I agree about smaller cameras being a problem, but for me, they aren't even ASKING for a hop on those)... I like using the new 3M Command picture hanger adhesive strips with hard velcro already attached. Adheres GREAT to camera bodies, and no damage at all when you remove it by pulling the tab just like on a wall. For the projects where they are shooting "reality style" with a 5D or a 7D... Those haven't been terribly consistent on using even a dumb slate, OR asking me for timecode or a display they can aim at. I pity their poor editors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAB414 Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 +1 on the G3's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Feeley Posted June 30, 2012 Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 What exactly is the "key test" you mention? That is a new one on me. From the Lectrosonics FAQ: #034 - What is the Dreaded Key Test? This simple test reveals how well a wireless mic system can handle high frequency audio transients and, in fact, the quality of the entire audio processing chain in the system. Set up the wireless system with a pair of headphones or a sound system at a fairly high level without feedback. It is best to be able to listen to the audio output of the receiver away from the acoustic sound that the keys themselves generate. Set the input gain on the transmitter for a normal level with an average speaking voice. A few more paragraphs here: http://www.lectrosonics.com/faqdb/68-034-What-is-the-Dreaded-Key-Test/View-details.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Babb Posted June 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2012 I do have a g2 that I use as a camera hop and I'm pretty happy with it but I'd like to provide stereo for those jobs where I have the tracks split. (Most of the time) I use a snake alot and it is a pain in the backside to do anything that requires moving around. So when production is using the camera tracks I need to ensure they are pretty darn good. Except for that dang budget thingy. G3s would be a good option and I could be satisfied with them. Is there a cold shoe mounting solution for two g3s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent R. Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 So you guys dare to use camera hops without return? That to me is a bit scary, dropouts and all. I presume topic starter is not talking guide track but "real" audio hop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 So you guys dare to use camera hops without return? That to me is a bit scary, dropouts and all. I presume topic starter is not talking guide track but "real" audio hop. I would use a hop without a return, but I'd want the op to be wearing cans in that case. Someone's gotta be making sure its being recorded properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent R. Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Yeah? You trust a cam op to take care of your responsibility? Sure it can work, but to me it doesn't see right. Of course both benefit from the hop since you don't have the umbilical cord. But still, it's the sound ops responsibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Yeah? You trust a cam op to take care of your responsibility? Sure it can work, but to me it doesn't see right. Of course both benefit from the hop since you don't have the umbilical cord. But still, it's the sound ops responsibility. No, I don't. But in the rare cases where I had to use a 1-way hop (no return) I had the camera op wear headphones to check there was audio coming I properly, and I recorded myself. I do not trust anyone to do my job, but having someone check it (even if it is a camera op) is better than nothing. This was an arrangement I had with an op I worked with for a while. Now when i do I have a return he still wears headphones anyway, because he likes to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Babb Posted July 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 So you guys dare to use camera hops without return? That to me is a bit scary, dropouts and all. I presume topic starter is not talking guide track but "real" audio hop. Correct. I suppose you could mount two more G3s to get the stereo return. Now you're into about $3K. And an unhappy camera op. AND you don't know if the hit you just heard was on the send or the return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent R. Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Correct. I suppose you could mount two more G3s to get the stereo return. Now you're into about $3K. And an unhappy camera op. AND you don't know if the hit you just heard was on the send or the return. Correct on what? You can go IFB Zaxcom return. Over 2.4 no dropouts just signal or not. Shouldn't be a problem when you in real close range of camera. Or get the Ricksonix solution, a couple of 100 dollars for TX en RX. And it's not just dropouts to be worried about of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Bacon AMPS Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 So you guys dare to use camera hops without return? That to me is a bit scary, dropouts and all. I presume topic starter is not talking guide track but "real" audio hop. I'd argue a 1 way hop (no return) is fine providing you are running a timecoded backup in your mixer bag (788 or 552). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent R. Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 I'd argue a 1 way hop (no return) is fine providing you are running a timecoded backup in your mixer bag (788 or 552). Sure, backup is key then. By the way I was talking about this Ricsonix thing: http://www.ricsonix.com/audioReturnKit.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Babb Posted July 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 Correct on what? Real audio not guide track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt McGowin Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 is it the cam op job to monitor the hop and should a back up be recorded.? In the words of the senator "it depends" These are those things that need to be decided ahead of time and when you negotiate the deal and hopefully not decided on the day I think SR's are the best to go for main Audio to cam. G3 are the best budget hops. Great to have a few for scratch track or back up talent radios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael McQueen Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 i'll stick a g2 tx on camera to send a mono back to me if camera op isn't wearing cans. a lot of the shows i'm on camera ops will wear headphones when i'm using a hop. but when you're sending to three cameras its kind of hard to monitor all of those... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordi Posted July 1, 2012 Report Share Posted July 1, 2012 On the reality TV I've done so far, the camera op has been monitoring his own audio from my wireless hop - these were gigs where the network provided gear (and not always the right or enough gear) and I've had to have my audio quality critiqued by a camera driver. Yeah, I'm not terribly thrilled about that either, but it was their show, and that was how they wanted to do it. I had a recorder in my bag on two recent shows, and on the other... I was the backup mixer with just a Wendt (yuk) and had the ONLY audio being sent to the camera while we were doing some in-car stuff. I was in the back seat, camera was in the front seat, talent was driving. I was nervous about that to say the least, but the camera guy (who has been working on this show in different cities with a different 2nd Audio Mixer each time) said that my mix that day was the best he has heard so far. More of a problem with these wireless hops and reality TV... They aren't renting or asking for any timecode stuff! I don't know how the editor will feel about that, or if they are somehow using an on-camera audio (There have been 5D and 7D cams in the mix) to sync it up... But that is their deal, b/c again - They got the gear. Personally, I view anything being sent to the camera, wireless or not, as a scratch track to link to my recorder in the bag... Unless there is absolutely no other option. Camera companies are concerned with making pretty pictures (as they should be) but audio is only an afterthought, if at all. I will approach the discussion with a show in that way, but if they are comfortable (or insistent) that their camera driver can adequately monitor the audio listening for wireless hits or crunchyness... Well, then that is their show, and I will do it that way to the best of MY skills. If I am using my own rig like on this most recent project... The recorder is in my bag, and whether a scratch copy gets sent to the camera depends entirely on their camera. I know I have a good recording for them at the end of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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