Richard Lightstone, CAS Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 One of my pet peeves about episodic television production is THEIR policy of Pro-Rating Sound Equipment packages based on a partial work week. For example paying 4/5 of a package rate because of a holiday week. When and how did this pratice become "grandfathered" as SOP? My argument to counter this is that the Camera, Lighting and Grip packages are WEEKLY rentals with no discounts for unused days. If the equipment is in the hands (i.e on the camera truck) of the Production, then they should pay for a full weeks rental wether the package was 'working' or not. I'd like to know how other mixers have dealt with this situation and how you have managed to overcome this accounting/production philosophy. I have a feeling that this might be a provocative thread? Regards, Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 I've dealt with this in the past and the oft used reply from UPMs is.."would you rather I negotiate a three/four day week on your sound equipment, like I have with other departments?" It seems that the norm for certain camera/grip/electric rentals is a deal similar to that mentioned, giving UPMs a certain advantage when dealing with this case in point. I feel the same way that you do Richard, but have lomg since resigned myself to the "don't rock the boat" syndrome where kit rental is concerned. There are lots of other little perks that restore the balance, on our show anyway, but your point is well taken. Regards Mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSBELLA Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 Hey guys, on a side note, how about pro rating the 2nd unit packages. that is really a bummer. we recently rented a complete "premium" package for a rediculous amount, they (production) told me it was a pro-rated week from the 1st unit's deal. Richard, I can kind of agree on the holiday week. the 2nd unit gear rate is very sad right now, especially when the rental goes thru the 2nd unit sound mixer and he has to 2 step it to production. do you get a paid holiday as a crew member by prod or the local?? or nada? thanks, good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tourtelot Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 I am sure that the UPM would be glad to pay for a full week on a 1 1/2 day-week. You'd loose a lot of money! My rental agreement states that the rate I negotiate is "per shooting day." No charges on holidays, prep or wrap. But every day that the gear comes off the truck, it gets paid for. That makes those unexpected sixth days confrontation less and I get all the money. Don't do a weekly deal. D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 I was making a deal on one movie for a "weekly" rate but the UPM mentioned "that's XXX per day." I let it go. When the show changed to six day weeks before production started, my invoices read "Sound Package at $XXX per day, six days - TOTAL $XXX." I billed the extra day, was given the money with no problem. They were added days, so must have been budgeted for rental, but the UPM didn't try to get them for free. I have worked on shows with the same UPM since, and it was never an issue. That's rare, I know. Since we own the gear, it's seen as personal "kit" and not gear as if rented from a rental house. Not sure how that happened. Regarding 2nd units, of which I do a lot, I usually say that my rental is the 1st unit weekly rental divided by five plus $100 for the daily. I have had no problems, except with FOX, who always pays me $350/day regardless of what I bill them. They pay $1750 per week or $350 per day. That's it. There's a message on my machine today questioning my $450 invoice. Usually they just send the $350 without saying anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Lightstone, CAS Posted September 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 Mick, Like you, on most shows I have "not rocked the boat" either. I always look at the long term aspect of the total of all the weeks the equipment will be rented. I also use my corporation and keep the Invoices at the agreed full rental price - then I have something I can discuss with the UPM or Producer if they arbitrarily discount the check. If they do, then I have also used that same argument to justify a 6 day rental week when and if that happens. But it's true, our packages are always traditionaly treated as "box rentals" and not similarly to rental houses. I know it's a touchy area, but I'm going to try to make small waves and attempt to change the status quo. I'll report back on how I do as soon as I see the check for this "Labor Day week". In response to Frank's question about "Holiday pay". There is no Holiday Pay on a first season Television series - this is one of the many 'give backs' negotiated away years ago. Thanks for your responses. Regards, Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tourtelot Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 Maybe I should have gone farther in my post. Here's what works form me, FWIW. As I mentioned above, always a rental fee "per shooting day." I do not ever have my equipment listed on the start paperwork as "box rental." I rent me package to the company, like Panavision, through my company and invoice the company weekly, expecting payment in 10 days or less. I make the UPM sign a simple one-page agreement that speaks about fees, payment, what they get, what they don't get and spells out my company's requirements for a certificate of insurance. It isn't rocking the boat; it's business. Most UPMs are fine with it, after we have agreed on a daily rental fee. The one other thing I do religiously, is not nickle-and-dime them for additional gear. They get almost everything I have as needed. The Anchor speaker, yes. Lots of Comteks on a guest-filled day, yes. Eight channels of wireless, yes. That way, once the deal is made, the UPM almost never has to hear about it again. What I do charge extra for is earwigs, and large playback, extra recorders, and anything that I need to sub-rent from another vendor. D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 On a slightly different tack, but in the realm of "nickle and diming", I did a series about fifteen years ago where the story line called for a sound technician and the two main actors to be in a van full of recording gear on a surveillance stake-out. I recorded the entire scene while on camera being the sound tech recording the stake-out. Kind of Kubrickish in a way, but I digress. At the end of the day I was given a non-SAG voucher to sign and told that I'd earned about $120 as a featured extra. "Cool" says I and thought no more of it until the following Thursday when I saw a marked reduction in my paycheck. After questioning the amount with payroll I finally asked the UPM what this was all about and he informed me that I had been "docked" sound mixing hours while being the extra. My argument that I had also been the sound mixer simultaneously fell on deaf ears. I was very new and inexperienced at the time, having arrived in L.A. from Miami fairly recently, so I didn't think to involve the local, (695 going through their own set of problems at the time) who hopefully would have gone to bat for me. My subsequent distrust of UPMs and above-the-liners has been tempered somewhat over the years by working with quality people of ethics and integrity, but I labor not under any misapprehension that there are those out there who will resort to anything in the grey areas of union mandates to promote their own agendas. Pet peeve of mine; the fourteen hours before double time after a "bus to" What genius gave that away? I feel better now but this jacket with the arms strapped around my back makes it difficuly to reach the faders... Regards Mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 Wow. Micks story is funny. Catch 22 lives. As a commercial mixer I have nothing to add as far as war stories go. Commercials in LA are daily in rate n sound package. The basic package is X amount, and the comteks, radio mics, playback, and second recorder if needed, are all additional rentals. The deal is sweet but the work is an acquired taste. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Timan Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 The one other thing I do religiously, is not nickle-and-dime them for additional gear. They get almost everything I have as needed. I agree on a general basis but I balk at doing this if they are nickel-and-diming me on the kit rental. If they take care of me with a regular and fair rate I take care of them. If they haggle endlessly and unfairly over the kit rental then I provide a basic package and EVERYTHING else -- camera links, playback, earwigs, tons of wireless, twenty comteks etc -- all comes at an additional charge. I generally price specialty equipment as extra (more than simple playback, earwigs, underwater gear, eight TC slates for eight cameras, etc) but keep recording gear all part of the main package. If you give them an entire sound rental house for $350 a day they'll expect that of everyone else before too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tourtelot Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 Who said anything about $350 a day? D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Timan Posted September 8, 2007 Report Share Posted September 8, 2007 Who said anything about $350 a day? Wasn't implying that you did, just putting out the words as a caution for folks who might be working for that and heed your advice nonetheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted September 8, 2007 Report Share Posted September 8, 2007 I'm laughing at how I spelled "nickel" A measure of forgiveness for a foreigner please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted September 8, 2007 Report Share Posted September 8, 2007 Wow. Micks story is funny. Catch 22 lives. As a commercial mixer I have nothing to add as far as war stories go. Commercials in LA are daily in rate n sound package. The basic package is X amount, and the comteks, radio mics, playback, and second recorder if needed, are all additional rentals. The deal is sweet but the work is an acquired taste. CrewC That's a good way to put it. I would add that one runs into many overpaid sociopathic sufferers of "Acquired Situational Narcissism" syndrome, but the good thing is that most of those guys dissappear after a few jobs, and the crew people go on and on.... Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted September 8, 2007 Report Share Posted September 8, 2007 Hey Philip, You must have graduated from a better collage than I did cause "Acquired Situational Narcissism" syndrome, wasn't taught at my old school, but it sounds like a Know nothing A hole, but I went 2 USC, so what do I know. A lot of these cats work way past their Due Date, so I think the Question with all jobs becomes is it worth it. Sometimes it is, and.......... CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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