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question re pre roll and assistant editors


bendybones

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Having just acquired the luxury of Pre-Roll (Nomad), I'm wondering...

...do those syncing the sound ever dislike Pre-Roll due to increasing the time they spend looking for the sticks?

Or do people include the Pre-Roll amount on their sound reports?

apologies, i just realised i posted this in "equipment"

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Having just acquired the luxury of Pre-Roll (Nomad), I'm wondering...

...do those syncing the sound ever dislike Pre-Roll due to increasing the time they spend looking for the sticks?

Or do people include the Pre-Roll amount on their sound reports?

apologies, i just realised i posted this in "equipment"

No apologies necessary. Modern syncing routines (and I'm sure Marc will chime in here with much more detailed information) do not have to "look for the sticks" the way the transfer house used to have to do this. I can't imagine anyone involved in the post process, starting with the syncing of dailies, would ever object to pre-roll. I have also heard that some syncing routines would also like to have some POST-roll on the soundtrack (so that sound has not cut until the camera has actually cut).

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I hit the button when the 1st AD calls it. Sometimes post will get just a bit more than my 10 seconds of pre-roll, or sometimes a minute or so. I've never been told I have too much pre-roll. It's also nice to have the pre-roll in case I'm late to the button or there's an over-enthusiastic AC who hits sticks before "sound speed" (although I try to break that habit early).

As Jeff wrote, it's a pretty good idea these days (with HD) not to cut sound until camera has cut. "CUT" for some reason doesn't always mean cut.

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My pre-roll is nothing compared to an AD calling roll sound well before everyone else is ready. I did one film where an editor was on site syncing sound and it became a running joke that 60-90 seconds of me rolling sound before the sticks actually happened were usual. My 5 seconds of pre-roll allowed him to hear the AD call "roll sound", then start the clock. I was using a Fostex PD-6 at the time, so I could note (on my paper sound reports) how long it took till sticks clapped. There were a few that had to be over 3 minutes, but the Fostex has that post roll thing so it takes a minute to stop and start recording. It was easier to let it roll than appear not to be ready if they actually wanted to go right after I cut.

I also don't cut until I know the camera actually cut. Easy to know on a Red shoot!

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I also don't cut until I know the camera actually cut. Easy to know on a Red shoot!

You got that right! On my previous digital shoot with the Genesis camera (quiet) I often found myself asking "are we still rolling?". Not so with the RED... when it is OFF it is painfully obvious!

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I never hit record until I hear the stix.

CrewC

I tried that for about half a day, until I got distracted during the lengthy time between "rolling" and the sticks and failed to press record. Now my boom op waits for me, the AC waits for him, and all is well.

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Wow, I was wondering if anyone was gonna take that seriously... obviously, I would never actually do that...

Sorry to muddy the water with such irrelevant drivel.

As to pre-roll... I generally go 10 seconds on the Metacorder, and 5 to 10 seconds on the SD... but like others posted, when the 1st AD calls it, I roll -- not too concerned anymore with how much pre-roll I have -- if anything, it's a great audible documentation of how efficiently (or inefficiently) things are running on set... sometimes it's even downright comical : )

~tt

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I just worked on a doc where I pushed the pre-roll from my usual 5 seconds to 10. We were shooting in an inner-city school and something would happen in the halls or over the PA, while we were walking between locations etc. The camera was in the AC's hands and might not even be powered up. The director would whip around and look at me and say "I really hope you got that". I would just press record and say "yep".

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An AD who's a friend told me he rolls sound early as a way to crack the whip. He'll call "On a bell" which tends to settle the class so that we can all do our homework.

I have worked with a bunch of ADs that do that. Kind of annoying, especially for my boom op that's at the ready for no good reason.

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I have worked with a bunch of ADs that do that. Kind of annoying, especially for my boom op that's at the ready for no good reason.

+1

Bad ADing.

A simple, "Who's not ready!?" should perk everyone up and give them an opportunity to say they need a minute. Then "roll sound" if nobody answers. Otherwise it's becomes a "boy who cried wolf" scenario.

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When an AD tries to quiet the set by saying "roll sound" after a while I'll go to him and tell him honestly that yelling "roll sound" is one way you will loose control of the crew, they will know what you are doing and then when "roll sound" doesn't work any more what are you going to do, it's a slippery slope and it's the best way I know to loose command of your crew. Most good AD won't do this but some desperate ones will, I respect the AD position and try to help them when I can.

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The modern dailies systems that the big post houses use have a mode that will automatically locate claps ("Clap Finder," and no, this is not a social disease). Literally, you can fast-forward the picture and then stop right on the sticks closing, then hit one button and the sound file will jump right to the first loud transient near the top of the take. Unless there's multiple cameras or lots of loud sounds going on, chances are good this will be the clap. In this respect, it doesn't matter if you have 5 minutes of pre-roll or 1 second. If the take is good, the operator locks these together and then jumps to the next scene. Literally, the whole process takes about :30 seconds per take. 200 takes would take you a couple of hours at worst.

In the old days of manual film dailies, we did need at least 7-8 seconds of pre-roll for the equipment (tape, film and sound) to roll backwards 6 seconds prior to the edit. Also, editors and assistant editors generally like a couple of seconds prior to the clap just to confirm the scene name and check any info on the slate.

On a timecode project, the assistant editor can just type in the number and immediately sync the shot -- or, assuming the timecode matches the digital camera, lock them together (with an offset if necessary), and they're done.

I'll say this: a lot of the crews I work with are much too casual about rolling and cutting. This latest project I just finished, they had a habit of not telling me that they cut, since the director happened to be 6 feet from the camera but about 20 feet away from me. It's definitely less of a problem to have too much sound than not enough, but I don't like to waste disk space unnecessarily.

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" He'll call "On a bell" "

just as bad as calling "roll sound", only now people outside the stage will not respect the red light being on!!

I've had limited success with agreeing with the AD to a "Rehearsal Bell", that rings the bell/buzzer, but does not turn on the red lights...

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I came to verbal blows with the AD who began and continued--even after the private, gentle, "Not protocol," speech--to actually say, "Sound speed!" on set as a bigger bludgeon to get things rolling. He'd already cried, "Wolf," to the crew's exhaustion calling, "Roll sound," many, many minutes before anyone was ready and that strategy was no longer effective. I took to saying, "Noooo..." loud enough for him to hear me, then louder and louder and more emphatic until the crew got behind me and he finally ceased and desisted.

Now THAT was confusing.

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