Doug Brandon Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 On this thursday, Sept 20, production has come up with a scenario of sound mixer in a boat with camera and me (boom-op) on the back of a sea-doo with a driver, perhaps to boom. They are also requesting we wire the actors who will be wearing wet-suits and on surfboards. The dialogue takes place while sitting on the boards looking to shore. I believe we will be utilizing the lectro MM400, and Sanken cos-11: manufacturer claims water resistant. Some say, give it a fresh water bath when you are done and there are no problems. I'm not so sure the Lectrosonic term 'water resistant' means it can be hidden in a wet suit and occasionally immersed in sea water as actors climb on or off their surfboards. I'll probably contact the rental house as well as lectro/Sanken to get their advice. Anyone care to share their experience in this area? Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProSound Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 The mm400 is very water proof. However I would use a Countryman EMW or B6 instead of the Cos-11 since they are more water proof. Just make sure with the mm400 the battery tube has the "O" Ring on it and it is tightly secure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSBELLA Posted September 17, 2007 Report Share Posted September 17, 2007 Doug, whitney is correct, use the country B-6. the sanken is not water resistant. the B-6 is a pin size capsule and should be perfect for your scenario. also, try to put the mm400's in a "tx condom" then in the wet suit. and the mm400's can be immersed for sure, as surfers are climbing on off the boards. (they can handle the surfing part to) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpiegari Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 Be sure and mount the transmitters high on the talents body. Between the shoulder blades perhaps. When submerged, transmission is nil. Glen P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alien Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 As Glen said just make sure that the TX is up high between the shoulderblades if you want range when they jump in the water. If you see their backs then down in the small of the back is usually hidden with the excess of the wetsuit. The mic if you use a sanken will need to be condommed but if you use a countryman then they are water resistant, also cheap if you wreck them. I've used them on Kayaks capsizing multiple times and they work everytime. The sanken set up I would recommend is to put on the wire screen, this keeps some clean air around the diaphram, then over the top of that a finger condom, not too tight then seal it up with electrical tape, hide as needed. If they wear mess shirts as in the pro games then the mic can even poke through and not be seen. Good luck, and if all else fails a MKH 70 on a boom is a great tool with good sound. A lot better than little tiny mics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Brandon Posted September 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 They've moved our date to next week, so it'll be a few days to report back on how it sounds. Looking through the websites, the countryman EMW is the only mic claiming to have water resistant properties, actually submersible. And Lectro's MM series are the only TX's as well. I agree with Alien, a boom and good mic choice is always going to sound better. I hope we have a chance to get in there. Any thoughts of whether the TX should be outside the suit or can it be zipped inside against the body (between the shoulders makes sense)? A soaked suit may not allow enough signal through. An off-forum correspondence has suggested cutting a tiny hole in the wet suit for the antennea to poke through. I would love to do this, but I'll have to talk to the owners of the suits first. I have found a product to 'seal' an opening, kind of like a black rubber cememt for wetsuits. Another off-forum (nameless CAS) has suggested using a zip-lock if the MM400 is not available. Make a small hole for the mic cable and seal it with construction silicone caulk. Seems like a little work and possibly uncomfortable for the actor to have a baggie on his/her back. And you wouldn't have the antennea easily come through the wet suit. Could be problematic. Thanks for the info! Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Brandon Posted September 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 The sanken set up I would recommend is to put on the wire screen, this keeps some clean air around the diaphram, then over the top of that a finger condom, not too tight then seal it up with electrical tape, hide as needed. By saying a 'finger condom' do you mean cutting off the finger of a latez glove and using that over the mic head? Production has given us permission to cut holes in the wet suit as needed, for antannae and mic. That's a plus. I would imagine somewhere out there is a product that...when they wire in the hair for theater (or occasionally for film) could that wire also carry a small antennae to the top of the actors hair as well? I guess the new ZAXCOM TX with it's recording capabilities eliminates the worry of not getting a proper signal, but I don't think they're waterproof. Thinking out loud here. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alien Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 The finger condom is the small latex condom you put over your finger when you cut it. Available at any CVS, Rite Aid etc. The finger off of a latex glove would work just as well, but the finger condom is just easier to handle. If you did go with the Zaxcom setup then what I do is put the TX into a condom and seal it up with electrical tape then put this into a latex glove and seal it up with tape. Double bagging is always best but you could go with just the glove. The tape needs to go a couple of inches up the cable. I then put this into a cloth tx bag and mount it onto the wet suit with safety pins. This way the actor doesn't have the elastic belt on and the unit doesn't slip down. If you do this right you should have no problems. I've had many units go into the water and carry on working. The EMW will work without the condom even after being dunked repeatedly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Brandon Posted September 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2007 Thanks everyone! Alien, I'll look for some 'finger condoms' tomorrow to have in my stock. We've got this idea of creating a pocket in the wet suit with the same material the wet suit is made of, on the inside of the wet suit somewhere between the shoulder blades. This may help in keeping the transmitter secure from whatever. Maybe we'll create two, one lower in case they have some shots from behind and the shoulder pocket stands out when full. We've been told it's a short scene and they're sitting on the boards, and we can do whatever we want to the suits... ehhhhhxcellent. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich Posted September 22, 2007 Report Share Posted September 22, 2007 we had a scene a few weeks back which involved 2 actors hanging onto a log as it was being swept towards the edge of the world. i used my audio ltd 2000's in aquapacs with countryman b6's. i then had the aquapacs in traveller's money pouches under the shoulder. i used the foam pop shield on the b6 so that after the mics got submerged, there wouldnt still be a little drop of water on the capsule which would make the mic still sound like its underwater. whilst it didnt work as well as i would have hoped, i do have a few ideas for next time. make sure the mics are as high as possible so that they are out of the water for nearly as long as the actor is. i would try and get an antenna extension cable (like audio part# 900-097) so that the antenna could be equally as high whilst the Tx is still securely mounted. i also like the idea of the zaxcom recording tx but it wont stop the script super and director etc complaining that they cant hear anything over the noise of the 7 outboard motors rigged up to create turbulence, once the tx is submerged. but you'll probably be luckier than we were on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Brandon Posted September 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2007 we had a scene a few weeks back which involved 2 actors hanging onto a log as it was being swept towards the edge of the world... Wow Rich, I can understand your frustration. Was there no way to get any kind of boom in on the shot? From what people are saying, I guess it may serve to have the lectro mm400 as part of your arsenal (of course-the investment). Even if things didn't work out to 100% great sound, I hope you managed some kind of giggle on the way home from watching actors drifting to the edge of the world! Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich Posted September 22, 2007 Report Share Posted September 22, 2007 i was trying to wave a boom at it but the techno crane and having the actors further out into the water than i could reach with the boom hampered me somewhat. and i wasnt too keen to do too many passes whilst in the water up to my midriff for a scene that will be ADRed anyway. (but if the producers read that, then i didnt write it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Timan Posted September 22, 2007 Report Share Posted September 22, 2007 The finger condom is the small latex condom And you thought you were embarrassed just buying regular condoms at the pharmacy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Groves Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 Or how about explaining why regular condoms just won't do; "I need six boxes of unlubricated condoms...U N L U B R I C A T E D!!!" I yell as I shake my fist at the poor pharmacist...ackward silence...and I'm banned from yet another CVS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Brandon Posted September 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 Transmitter in a neckless pouch and the lav poking out Thanks Scott, With all honesty, I'm not trying to be a smart ass here, however, perhaps you intended to write neckLACE and not a neckLESS. I looked on line and found diffferent necklace pouches used for i-pods, mp3 players and such. I can see possible uses here. I'm also wondering what salt water might do to the aluminum connections of my like new k-tek pole. If my little knowledge of chemistry serves me, they are quite corrosive to one another. This might be a good time to pull out the $20 paint pole. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Brandon Posted September 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 Thanks everyone for your input, I've learned a few things here. Our job today launched out of Marina Del Rey with the staging area aboard a forty foot long, twenty foot wide flat top barge type pontoon with twin 250hp outboards. Camera, sound, director and driver were in one of two twelve foot Viking inflatables that followed along. Myself (boom), two actors (surfers), two divers (to stabilize the boats while shooting) and surfboards were in the other Viking inflatable. I was able to boom everything and we never wired anyone. Reason for no wires being: the mixer felt it wasn't worth it because the coast guard was running training all morning and there was no way we could get around the hellicopters constantly flying overhead. Company eventually returned to the barge and we moved away from the training area only to find the hellicopters were masking the constant take-offs from LAX international. Between airplane launches we were able to aquire a few good takes, but I imagine they will be looping the entire scenes. The scenes were very short and we all finished by 11:30 just in time for a beautiful noonday lunch and then home. BTW, i emailed K-tek to find out if they had done any tests with their poles in sea water. Shera Smith responded with great confidence in their products stating K-tek had been used in sea water and inspected afterwards with no problems. She went on to state, 'If you have any problems after your shoot, send your poles back and we'll refurbish them!' Thanks Shera and K-tek for the support! Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Brandon Posted September 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 BTW #2, I said to the mixer afterward, "we should have wired them anyway," and he said no, it wasn't worth the risk. So I said, "you're right...but I disagree..." and we left it at that. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Posted October 6, 2007 Report Share Posted October 6, 2007 There is the Aquapac bag for tx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afewmoreyears Posted October 14, 2007 Report Share Posted October 14, 2007 Correct Some stuff, usually due to effects equip. or Copters for example, you just get a guide track and let the experts go to work.... The risk to your nice gear to record something that will most likely never be used, sometimes is just not worth it.... The effort is great though.... freshwater maybe.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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