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First time with Red epic


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Two red Epics on a movie in Alabama and despite all the quasi-negativity that's been bandied around here and elsewhere I must say it's been a pleasure so far. Time code jamming is easy, lockit box slates and all, although I have found that there's a three or four frame drift if I don't jam every three hours. The sound and picture is syncing just nicely and the picture quality is really awesome. The DP notwithstanding the footage is really pretty and the cameras really bring it pictorially. I worked with the Al;exa recently and for my money the price differential is not worth the picture difference which to my eye, (remember I'm a sound man) is negligible. Now let's talk about the heat and humidity....

Regards

Mick

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I think by the time you add the lens packages, monitoring kits, mounting accessories, and so on, the daily rental price on the Epic and the Alexa are not that different. $40K camera vs. a $65K camera... and then you add $100,000' worth of lenses and all the other stuff. That's where the real money is.

The general belief from producers is that the post workflow is more complex with Epic, but I think there are ways to compensate for that if you're prepared for it and have the staff for it. But no question, Alexa is just "grab the files and go," in terms of having edit-ready Quicktime files. I think that's a big reason why Alexa has grabbed the lion's share of the U.S. network TV business -- at the moment.

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You have Lockits on the cameras, and they are drifting 3-4 frames in 3 hours? If that's true then something is not set up correctly. There should be less than 1 frame of drift in 8 hours. Do you have Lockits on the cameras? If you are having that much drift then they are syncing by the slate clap and not TC, and while the dailies may work fine this way there will be issues later in post if your audio file TC does not match that of the cameras. Regardless of how much you like the picture quality, you should consider making the TC system work the way it is supposed to. If the cameras are drifting that much from your TC then they are probably drifting in relation to each other as well....

Speaking of heat, how are you doing re the camera's fans?

phil p

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The syncing is being done using the time code but there is definitely a drift after three hours. Whether it's the cameras or the lockit boxes i don't know but the drift is there regardless of the source. B camera actually sees the difference by comparing the camera readout with the slate and i assure you that all the relevant parts are generating and jamming to the correct frame rate.

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I would have to agree with Phil --- something hasn't been set up correctly. There is no possible way for the sync boxes to be that far off. If you are the master timecode and your jamming the sync boxes and the slates, are the sync boxes and slates drifting? I doubt it. If the cameras are drifting from the sync boxes and the slates, the settings on the camera (to accept external TC from sync box) must be wrong, or there is some other setting that is interfering with proper TC getting into the cameras.

I know I have had very little experience with this but the last movie I was on was with 2 RED Epic cameras, Denecke sync boxes on the cameras, boxes and slates jammed from the Deva --- never a problem or any drift.

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That's my experience as well -- zero drift with an SB-T driving each camera. I wonder if they're not running the cameras in external and are instead just jamming every so often. For two or more cameras, I have been told by post engineers that the cameras need both genlock (external sync) and timecode, in order to be phase-accurate.

There was another thread elsewhere about a mixer getting frustrated by a 25fps project where the second camera was constantly 1 frame early or 1 frame late, and I think something similar was going on. I'm not sure if this was ever resolved (no pun intended).

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" There is no possible way for the sync boxes to be that far off. "

unless something is broken or out of tolerance..

This is basic troubleshooting 101, to find out what is actually out of sync with everything else. and if it is a camera (or the cameras) then that is where the issue is...

does it jump suddenly at some point after 3 hours or so?? a sudden, multi-frame jump like that sounds like it might be related to something that happens every 3 hours or so... battery changes or something ..??

My old work habits include rejamming everything as we approach first shot, then again on every major set-up

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Red has gone a long way in making the Epic more reliable with the software updates in the last six months. The crews I work with are also familiar with the traps. I worked with an assistant last week who actually held up the slate next to the camera monitor (without me asking him to), and he said, "oh, yeah, we just changed the SSD, so I'm just confirming the timecode is OK." He actually grabbed some frames and made sure the camera code and slate code were identical in a playback still frame.

The three potential situations where timecode can screw up are: 1) power cycle, 2) drive change, 3) hardware crash. That, plus somebody disconnecting the external TC box.

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