Jeff Wexler Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Cheers bro. I'm done with this. We can only hope... I really don't want to change the name of this site to "R.A.M.P.S. II". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Burstein Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 " (not yet) a pro. I think you are a pro ever since you started getting money for what you do. " Well said and a great point. I'll keep this with me for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 Dear Mark, Apologies for putting a private message out in public, I for one appreciate the ethics of privacy. I apologize once again, Mark. No apologies necessary, Vin. I understand (and agree with) your passion on the subject of wages -- in any country. I'm very sympathetic about this, and totally get why you would need to use the email to make your point. Still it's one of those Internet Rules that are a slippery slope. Taking jobs for very low rates are also a slippery slope, because it justifies producers' twisted beliefs and perpetuates bottom-feeder attitudes and budgets. Rather than cheating the people that work under me, I've done the opposite -- kicked in more money out of my fee just to make sure they got a fair wage, and I've also fought with producers to get boom ops and assistants paid more money. I agree with you that the idea of an assistant getting paid only $10 a day is horrific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 Wow what a hot topic!!!! I've worked in India, Africa, Thailand and many Pacific countries where pay rates are less than we would expect in USA, Europe or Australasia as we have to meet the cost of more expensive housing and lifestyles etc. It is very difficult to connect with a project that may have a low budget. I was asked to record Nandita Das's first feature in India 5 years ago. The crunch came when we needed to talk money, and I had to admit that as an NZ freelancer I needed to charge $xxxxx That did not fit the budget let alone air fares etc and I understood. Now I've slept in strange and cheap place and dined simply but I have overheads that I have to meet back home so no go, very sad. Vin I identify you as an experience professional with great gear and understand your predicament very well. BTW I've cooked Indian food for 40 years so when you are next in NZ.............. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted August 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 <Vin. I will look you up next time I'm there. We'll have a few pitchers of king fisher at the red box in Andheri...on me. > Oh damn that red box shit. i'll take you to places elsewhere man. <I'll explain everything to you if you'd like. If not, we will just get to know each other.> There's nothing left to explain - so we'll just drink and talk. >Maybe you can educate me on how things work in the Indian film industry. For me, I just showed up. I didn't make any decisions about rates or crew, I was just happy to be there. Do I think it's right that my attendant gets so little? No but I was told that is normal. I don't know if that's a lie or not. I don't live there. These are Marathi films btw. Not Hindi. So they are super low budget.> Don't matter really. Why should i educate you about the Indian film industry man? Why don't you find your space where you are - rightfully as a citizen - and it IS possible. I know who you are and what you have done. Marathi cinema has low budgets, but this has to be remedied as far as the sound department is concerned - we out here are trying to do this - make them understand what it takes to get the good stuff - a good boom op, etc. Your approach to the whole thing is an impediment in the process. >And the smiley thing was genuine. Look at the Facebook version. It's kind of sad looking and that's the website that I use that particular emoticon on. If you don't believe that or anything else I say that's fine. I'm not going to spend more time trying to convince you. -sorry bro, i simply cant be convinced about this, and i think many others out here wont either. It's a mistake you made which you want to remedy, but things have gone far beyond this. >Look, I don't think you're a bad guy either but I don't think you should be so defensive either. I realize that you were defending your country an you industry but let go of so much pride man. This is where you hardly have even begun to understand me. I was NOT defending my country, OR my "industry". This is about principles, ethics, and such. Do you think i will condone someone paying 50$ a day to a person doing booming work on a project in the US?? or someone offering 100$ a day to a sound guy with gear ---NO!!!--- Why dont you see this?? It's happening all over your OWN country man - craigslist stuff, mandy stuff - this group has MANY members who write about these postings. If you want to be PRO really, REALLY, REALLY, and not just bullshit about it - try to first understand the ethics of what you are doing, what you facilitate when you do something for people who you work for... I CAN'T teach you what you dont know yet - about these aspects. I doubt if there is someone else who can. You have to find your way out yourself. >"Hate begets hate. Only love can dispell hate." someone from your country said that a looooong time ago. His name was Siddhattha Gotama. First, get the name right man. and don't proselytise. Get ready for your first lesson in humility before you even take his name. Having said this - next time you come by, give me a call and keep yourself free for a night - i'll show you the Bombay that you have never seen... -vin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted August 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 Dear Mike <I was asked to record Nandita Das's first feature in India 5 years ago.> Hah! I met her for this project and she was "convinced" I am the right guy - then she sent me the screenplay asking for my honest opinion. I gave her my honest opinion, and then never heard from her! Another guy out here did the gig anyways. <BTW I've cooked Indian food for 40 years so when you are next in NZ............ That will be the first time! I do wish to travel to that side of the world sometime, and will be sure to get in touch Mike. Be well! -vin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAudioSynthesist Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 <Vin. I will look you up next time I'm there. We'll have a few pitchers of king fisher at the red box in Andheri...on me. > Oh damn that red box shit. i'll take you to places elsewhere man. -sure. roothi punjab? or something like that? just make sure its not a "guy joint" >Maybe you can educate me on how things work in the Indian film industry. For me, I just showed up. I didn't make any decisions about rates or crew, I was just happy to be there. Do I think it's right that my attendant gets so little? No but I was told that is normal. I don't know if that's a lie or not. I don't live there. These are Marathi films btw. Not Hindi. So they are super low budget.> Don't matter really. Why should i educate you about the Indian film industry man? Why don't you find your space where you are - rightfully as a citizen - and it IS possible. I know who you are and what you have done. Marathi cinema has low budgets, but this has to be remedied as far as the sound department is concerned - we out here are trying to do this - make them understand what it takes to get the good stuff - a good boom op, etc. Your approach to the whole thing is an impediment in the process. -yeah, i get that. i get the fight with them. no one understands sound. even in the US it is often over looked - very frustrating, we all feel that! and i understand that its a battle to fight for location sound in a country of dub movies. i feel your pain in that sense dude. but you gotta understand, i'm still a newb. i'm still learning. i don't know everything about my own country let alone yours so if you want my "approach" to change the simple answer is education - which you have already refused me. i'm asking you in a very genuine and honest way, please educate me about your country and your perspective. rates, how much a boom op should be paid out there, etc. in that way, i might be better prepared to negotiate for my crew and myself, don't you think? i do however, ask that you refrain from the name calling. THAT impeds education. >And the smiley thing was genuine. Look at the Facebook version. It's kind of sad looking and that's the website that I use that particular emoticon on. If you don't believe that or anything else I say that's fine. I'm not going to spend more time trying to convince you. -sorry bro, i simply cant be convinced about this, and i think many others out here wont either. It's a mistake you made which you want to remedy, but things have gone far beyond this. - what's stopping you from believing me? i've given you no reason to think of me as a liar. this was an honest mistake using emoticons. its so stupid, actually, that it has come down to this...a stupid emoticon. ha! i urge anyone who felt this emoticon was used as a "smirk" to go look at the same emoticon on facebook. it has little sad eyebrows and looks "disappointed" which is what i was trying to convey. MY BAD. pfff...give me a break on this one. seriously. >"Hate begets hate. Only love can dispell hate." someone from your country said that a looooong time ago. His name was Siddhattha Gotama. First, get the name right man. and don't proselytise. Get ready for your first lesson in humility before you even take his name. Having said this - next time you come by, give me a call and keep yourself free for a night - i'll show you the Bombay that you have never seen... -but how do you know what parts of bombay i've seen and what parts i haven't? this is not an attack, but i think you assume too much and you have a lot of pride. i'm guilty of that too sometimes so i get it. i try to humble myself when proven wrong but that hasn't happened here. its just been opinion on top of opinion with name calling thrown in here and there. btw, how did I get his name wrong? should i just have said "Buddha" instead? -vin anyway, all the best Vin. never meant any harm to anyone. if i offended you, or anyone else, i apologize. i am apologizing right here, right now. i'm genuinly sorry. what i wont apologize for however, is defending myself. i don't know about you guys but if someone attacks you i'd assume you'd attack back. name calling is an attack and is not going to fix the situation, or educate anyone. nor will it change circumstances or opinions. education might though. and i think that is the approach we should be taking here. after all, isn't that what these forums are for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Burstein Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 btw, how did I get his name wrong? should i just have said "Buddha" instead? You spelled his name wrong. I believe it's Siddhartha Gautama. And no you shouldn't have just said Buddha instead. You had the right intentions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAudioSynthesist Posted August 14, 2012 Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 btw, how did I get his name wrong? should i just have said "Buddha" instead? You spelled his name wrong. I believe it's Siddhartha Gautama. And no you shouldn't have just said Buddha instead. You had the right intentions. thanks. i'm a terrible speller. slightly dyslexic. i googled his name, thats what came up. guess i was in too much of a hurry to copy paste and didn't verify. thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted August 15, 2012 Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted August 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 Chris, apology accepted, and all cool - will meet you the next time you are here. This thread has ended imho. -vin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAudioSynthesist Posted August 15, 2012 Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 Chris, apology accepted, and all cool - will meet you the next time you are here. This thread has ended imho. -vin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted August 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 Mark, come out from behind that couch!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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