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L.A. Sound Mixer Gathering - What it is, what it is not


Jeff Wexler

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The original suggestion for this luncheon, coming from Michael Miramontes, was supposed to be a luncheon get together for the Los Angeles based sound people, similar to the annual R.A.M.P.S. get together in Las Vegas at NAB. It was perfectly proper for Michael to propose such a gathering and I appreciate the effort he has put in to organize this. What is not appreciated, by me and I'm sure lots of other members here, is that this get together has become an EVENT, sponsored by one of our dealers, Professional Sound Services in New York. Our annual R.A.M.P.S. party has never been sponsored by anyone --- it's "sponsor" has always been R.A.M.P.S. Newsgroup and as recently as last year, JWSOUNDGROUP has played a role in organizing the event. At the R.A.M.P.S. Party, ALL of our favorite manufacturers and dealers have participated, donating swag, door prizes and give aways, all volunteering to make the party that much more fun. Several of our members donated their time as well to help set it up. Rado Stefanov, Jim Feeley and others have helped out. For several years in a row, a few of the volunteers who helped out in organizing the party actually had to come up with cash at the end. I know Larry Fisher and I have had to pony up (and neither of us tried to claim we were sponsoring the event).

My assumption was that this party, as Michael originally proposed, would be open to our entire sound community at JWSOUND as well as all of our manufacturers and dealers who are regular participants here. When I first learned of invitations being sent out to individuals and dealers, invitations to the Professional Sound Services Event hosted by JWSOUND, I was quite upset. I have gone to great lengths from the very beginning of JWSOUND (January 1, 2006) to provide an open and free online community, member supported without advertising or promotional material on the site. All of our dealers and manufacturers have been very respectful of this and the few times when I have felt that there has been favoritism or someone has taken advantage of our online community to promote their business, they have been called on this.

If Professional Sound Services had wanted to host and sponsor an event here on the West Coast (or anywhere for that matter), it would have been perfectly acceptable for Rich Topham to make an announcement in the Manufacturers and Dealers section of this site. It is not acceptable for an individual member, Michael Miramontes in this case, to invite people to a social get together that morphs into a promotional event for one of our Dealers. I sincerely hope this was not Michael's original intention.

PSS is welcome to participate in this JWSOUNDGROUP gathering as are all of our manufacturer and dealer friends who have been and continue to be such a valuable part of the JWSOUND site, hey, DEALERS are people too! I do not think it is proper or acceptable that JWSOUND is being portrayed as sponsoring an event for the benefit of one of our dealers.

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I really don't see the problem being that big of a deal. Of course it is called jwsoundgroup not ccsoundgroup. I hope all who come do so to meet the community here in L A.

CrewC

It's hard for me to disagree with most anything Crew says. The spirit of this "gathering" is for ALL of us to hang out and have a good time.

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" It is not acceptable for an individual member, Michael Miramontes in this case, to invite people to a social get together that morphs into a promotional event for one of our Dealers. I sincerely hope this was not Michael's original intention. "

I'm certain that was not and is not Michaels's intentions...

Looking back I notice Michael came up with an idea similar to other meet ups (New York, London come to mind) on 5 August. and on 6 August, Rich Topham offered up a lot of SWAG, and indicated he hoped he could attend.

It was on 9 August that Glen Trew announced that Trew Audio was a "proud sponsor".

I distinctly got the feeling all were welcome, and any "booty", from all potential sources, would be appreciated. I also noted that some of the potential suspects might not make it in person, due to being at IBC, but were still going to send along promotional items to add to the festivities...

On August 12, after Michael put up a flier for the event JW even said "I think it looks great, just a little overwhelmed at how "big" this event seems to have blossomed into --- I guess everything starts somewhere (and I have always been a big fan of anything that helps connect with each other socially, outside of work... I am honored and flattered to have JWSOUNDGROUP on the marquee. "

what changed ??

WHA' Happened ??

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It has come down to semantics, specifically the use of the term "sponsor" in this regard. In keeping with the R.A.M.P.S. Party model, I always thought that any sponsoring of these sorts of parties would take the form of our favorite group of dealers showing up and donating some swag. As to "what changed" I can only say that when the original post suggesting this social gathering was edited to make the big announcement that Professional Sound Services was sponsoring (there's that word again) this event, buying lunches and giving away Gift Certificates, it looked to me as if the original intent had somehow been lost. The original banner had only JWSOUNDGROUP as the "sponsor" or host but later there were two entities: JWSOUND and Professional Sound Services. It is a little bit of a mountains out of mole hills, I agree, but it did push some buttons that I don't like to see being pushed.

That said, I hope everyone shows up, Michael had a great idea and was the catalyst to make this all happen --- we're going to have a great time!

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I agree with Jeff, although perhaps with a less severe reaction, since it's not my site. It's why I didn't speak up before. The fact that one dealer suddenly, and I'm guessing without invitation, decided to pay for the event effectively shut out the participation of the other dealers, who we all know and love. PSS meant no ill will I'm sure, but I think Trew did offer up some bits first, so it seemed like a bit of oneupsmanship to me.

I'm still attending, and would be happy to buy my own lunch. Why the brewery was so great, was the fact that people order and pay for their own food at the counter, and nobody gets stuck with a bigger bill than they should. I wish it was still there, but they got spooked, I think. I don't believe they couldn't have handled us.

Maybe we can go back to a self-pay, and dealers and manufacturers can send whatever swag they chose :-)

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I just hope that the dealers send some swag to IBC - there is far too little sound dept swag ;-))

Wrong side of the pond for all you US chaps... but see

http://tinyurl.com/c2fsmxa

its a little post IBC event that we run here in the UK..... in abut our 5th year, and gaining popularity!!

All are welcome!!

Kindest,

sb

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I just hope that the dealers send some swag to IBC - there is far too little sound dept swag ;-))

Wrong side of the pond for all you US chaps... but see

http://tinyurl.com/c2fsmxa

its a little post IBC event that we run here in the UK..... in abut our 5th year, and gaining popularity!!

All are welcome!!

Kindest,

sb

Hoping to meet some UK folks Dec. 29 or 30 in London. Hope you'll be around.

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The fact that one dealer suddenly, and I'm guessing without invitation, decided to pay for the event effectively shut out the participation of the other dealers, who we all know and love. PSS meant no ill will I'm sure, but I think Trew did offer up some bits first, so it seemed like a bit of oneupsmanship to me.

This is actually far from "the fact" and more so a "guess".

Why don't all take a deep breath, not sweat the small stuff, and go have a beer and socialize and get to know one another in person.

CrewC

EXACTLY!!!

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This is actually far from "the fact" and more so a "guess".

Sorry. Just an expression. Didn't mean to sound upset. Doesn't really affect me. Just thought it was weird, albeit very generous, for PSS to offer to pay for the event. It did, perhaps inadvertently, seem to have the effect of shutting out other dealers from the event.

But I'm cool with whatever. Just looking forward to meeting people in real life.

Robert

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I agree with you, Jeff.

I did not attend the recent meet up in New York, but I did follow some of its development here online. It reminded me of a few get togethers I held in my apartment about 7 years ago. I had a few other non-union NY sound mixers / boom ops over for food, drink and talk. We were all pretty young and it was nice to meet new people in similar career positions, especially when some of us had only met others over the phone and never in person. We even called it a "Mixer Mixer" too.

In NY, there seems to be a sometimes "allegiance" amongst some sound people with different Sound Dealers. I understand familiarity and history one may have with a particular dealer, but in NY, amongst younger sound people, I've picked up on a "us/them" or "this shop/but never that shop" type of thing. I also see it in the allegiances some people hold towards certain brands - as if once you go down a path with a certain manufacturer then you have chosen your team and there isn't any mixing and matching allowed.

Because of that, I like to think of events like the one had in NY and the one that's being planned in LA as being "better" than those sort of divides. These events, to me, are supposed to go beyond the differences in brands or shops and be more about the people. I'd much rather hear about personal stories than sales pitches. I'd rather share stories of re-purposing gear than to hear about the newest bells and whistles as if we're at a trade show (like my personal favorite, a legendary NY story which I heard comes from Jerry Bruck involving his Nagra being powered with a cup of salt water).

Like politics, it rubs me in an odd and weird way if the businesses have too much of a presence at an event like this. I don't blame them. They need customers and here we are. But the line gets blurred between friend and buyer, colleague and investment. I think it's up to us to keep these events from turning into trade shows or to be dominated by advertisement. How free are mixers going to be in talking about rental or sales deals they made with a rental/sales house being right there? How free are mixers going to feel in criticizing certain aspects of equipment they otherwise love if the manufacturer is buying them drinks. If I'm going to go hang out with other local mixers, I want to have freer conversations than I'm imaging can happen in those situations.

I think what Michael did here is great. It sounds like you will have a great turnout on the West Coast. We'll have to up our game in the East the next time around. I think it goes a long way to building these consesuses about rates that people keep asking for. A lot of our business has to do with networking and finding other personalities that we'd be okay spending 60 hours a week with. These events do help to achieve those goals. And maybe there is a place for the manufacturers and businesses, but I would hate for events that are in their infancy to be smothered by commercialism.

Josh

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I think that this has been completely blown out of proportion and some people are now reacting in an emotional and defensive way.

Richard's first comment was as follows:

"Thank you Michael, This sounds great. I will message you for more information so I can send you out MOS hats, Pro-Sound T-shirts and Pro-Sound gift certificates for all who are there. I would like to join in too. Send me the date and I can hopefully fly out for it."

I applaud his generosity and his desire to host an event. God knows it's hard to get people to show up, let alone have a good time.

The fact that Michael later made a flyer that said "jwsoundgroup.net presents" was perhaps something that he should have run by Jeff to use his name for this event. I think that Michael was carried away with enthusiasm and didn't expect Mr. Wexler to take offense. I don't know if I would have acted any differently. We are a close knit community and I believe Michael was acting in good faith and the spirit of brotherhood. IATSE 695 is after all a fraternity of sound technicians.

I believe we should all show up, have a great time, and enjoy everyone's company.

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" I'd much rather hear about personal stories than sales pitches. I'd rather share stories of re-purposing gear than to hear about the newest bells and whistles as if we're at a trade show "

give me a break...

you have made quite a leap from Richard's offer of swag, even lunch, to a major sales presentation! I think that is unwarranted, but of course folks are welcome to attend, or not.

Personally, I think the "mistake" might have been in the "www.jwsoundgroup.net presents" part.

Today, stadiums sell their names, sports organizations sell the names of their events, and of course every movie is proceeded by as much as a minute of spectacular "logo's" (aka vanity screens)...

As best I can figure, neither JW, nor Rich asked for naming rights, Michael enthusiastically just provided them...

what about (Glen) Trew?? was he required to buy in to become a "proud sponsor",several days after Rich stepped up..?? ...

It is my understanding that PSS has actually reached out and made it clear it is not "their event", and all are welcome to attend, contribute, and participate...

and based on the recent NYC event, where PSS provided SWAG including gift cards, it would seem this event was not in danger being turned into a sales presentation.

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I have known Rich Topham II From Pro Sound NY for a long long time.... since I started in this business.... He is one of, if not the friendliest most helpful sincere and generous persons I know in this entire business of ours...

I am SURE he meant nothing more than to continue his generosity by providing some fun stuff to the gathering.... He is a businessman... and I guess it can be taken a different way by some... but believe me, I know Rich meant NOTHING sinister in any way... and agree, I think all involved were well intended....

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I have known Rich Topham II From Pro Sound NY for a long long time.... since I started in this business.... He is one of, if not the friendliest most helpful sincere and generous persons I know in this entire business of ours...

I am SURE he meant nothing more than to continue his generosity by providing some fun stuff to the gathering.... He is a businessman... and I guess it can be taken a different way by some... but believe me, I know Rich meant NOTHING sinister in any way... and agree, I think all involved were well intended....

I second that.

CrewC

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I have spoken personally to all the principle people involved. It is my conclusion that no one has had any ill intentions regarding this party. Michael merely wanted to put the idea out there that we could all get together, have a few beers and have a great time, similar to the long running R.A.M.P.S. Party at NAB. Rich Topham from Professional Sound Services, Glen Trew from Trew Audio and others, offered up support for this gathering in the form of swag, door prizes and give-aways. So far, so good, it was still a party for the JWSOUNDGROUP as clearly stated in the first flyer Michael put up. Then things seemed to take an unfortunate turn when the whole notion of "sponsorship" (read: money) showed up. Professional Sound Services, for several reasons, somehow came to prominence on the banner and even on the original post proposing the get together in the first place. To many, this looked like the get together had become an "event", hosted by JWSOUND (me) and sponsored solely by PSS. I believe that even on the PSS website it originally announced our party as a PSS Event.

So, where are we now? We all still want the event to take place and Michael has told me that there are some upfront costs that have to be met for it to happen --- in my efforts to cool everything down (since we were all guilty of over-reacting) I think I have alienated the various individuals and companies that were before quite willing to help out.

I am still at a loss to actually figure out how this mess all came about, and equally at a loss as to how to make sure we can pull it off.

I will be speaking to Michael and the others involved to try and come up with some solutions to put this back on track. I wish I had just kept my feelings to myself, but I have to be honest that I felt the good will we have established with JWSOUND was being used improperly.

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