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SD 302 full scale tone


berniebeaudry

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I have a SD 302 and I'm curious if any other 302 owners use the "advanced gain structure" method to line up the meters with your recording device.  I would like to hear about the pros and cons of working this way.  I interface with a number of different cameras and the metering is all over the place.  Some of the older Beta SP camera/deck meters are particularly tricky.  There doesn't seem to much room above zero on the scale yet the meters aren't very responsive till you hit it harder and then its a tightrope between getting strong level and getting close to clipping.  If I listen to the return loud enough to hear what I'm doing I sometimes hear clipping on the peaks but I don't know if its distortion from the headphone circuit feeding both channels of the camera at too loud a level or its the tape really distorting.  A playback  direct from the camera would tell me for sure, but there often isn't time to do that.    Any advice about lining up metering with different cameras would be appreciated.

 

I've also been considering buying an outboard 48volt power supply for my mics (Schoeps CMIT5U, and Peluso CMEC-6).  Do you think this would give me better performance from these mics than what I get using the internal 302 power? And if so, what unit would you recommend?  Sometimes the mics don't seem to have as much gain as I would like, but perhaps I'm being too conservative on the trim pots.  Another reason I would use an outboard supply is the Peluso mic causes the mixer to go into oscillation if I don't use the 160hz high pass filter on the mixer and I increase the gain beyond a certain point.  It happens with mics that have extended low frequency response.  I can use it this way and it still sounds alot like the Schoeps hypercardiod mic, but would like to be able to use it without the filter if I can. 

All in all its a great mixer and I use it and a 442 quite often and want to get the most out of them and deliver the best sound possible.  I've been doing field audio for a long time and I've recently become addicted to reading this and some other audio forums and its because I like to learn how to do the job better/easier/faster and throw in some help to someone else if I can. The mixer who I boomed for early on in my career gave me a good start and taught me alot about this business and then implored me to pay it forward.  Its good to see the professionals on this forum have the same attitude.

One last question.  Do you finance your equipment purchases or do you just get what you need to do the work as it comes in?  I'm looking for ways to complete my partial package.

Regards all,

Bernie

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Try to keep your levels on your mixer around -8, after you tone out at 0. monitor the older camera's return and if you hear sizzle turn down the power. also activate the limiters on the 302 and try running the a bit lower the default to give yourself a bit breathing room.

Unless you really want the EXT PS the 302 should really be able to deliver what you need, open your trims up.

I personally buy what I need as needed, ie: when I land a project that requires XYZ I then get XYZ only if I am going to turn a profit otherwise I rent.

I don't feel financing a bunch of gear is the best as it creates extra stress since you need to make a payment every month regardless of your workload. but...

That's good advice, although the rental thing is tougher for those of us who work in areas w/o local rental shops--we have to be a little more self-sufficient since there isn't any quick backup.

Philip Perkins

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I never liked the idea of renting, unless it is for specialty equipment or "extra" equipment I know I'll only use once or once in a while.  If it's something you know you want and will need eventually, then i suggest buying it.  The best thing to do is figure out what it will cost you to rent it (including vehicle mileage and time to pick it up) and what it will cost you in interest to own it.  Even at an ridiculous interest rate of 24%, it only costs $50/month to own a SD442 $2500.  It is tax deductible and in your house and only used gently by you.  It's also there if you didn't think you'd need it, but suddently do. 

That said, I have rented a SD442 on a couple of occasions, but it is rarely needed by me and I also have a friend who owns one and lends it to me if I need it.  But if I knew I was starting a show with a lot of car work, I'd probably buy one before renting again.

Renting gear only increases the cost of something you will eventually buy anyway.

Sorry, Frank.

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Bernie,

I run an external 2.2 A/H gel cell for my 302 and get no issues with my CMIT 5U.

I think when you are using other channels as well it does put a bit more of a strain on your

internal batteries ( in my case Energiser Lithiums).The internal batteries stay in all the time.

I also have a mixpre and a AD146 6 in/4 out.

The 146 will run on 12 and 24 volts, but I know from experience that I will always run on 24 for preference as I get a much better transient response.

I suspect if you are just relying on your internal batteries,you are not getting the best out of your mics.

I'm not suggesting that the 302 won't run the mics successfully but you will get a better result with the external supply.

You could try metering the 48 volts from one of the other channels when in using your mic to see if there is any fluctuation but I think you would need a fairly sensitive setup and you might not see much. Have you tried another 302 or any other mixer to see if the CMIT works better on them?

You shouldn't have to run your other mic with a 160 HP filter in. Thats a sure sign you don't have enough oomph in your power supply.

Brian

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Try to keep your levels on your mixer around -8, after you tone out at 0. monitor the older camera's return and if you hear sizzle turn down the power. also activate the limiters on the 302 and try running the a bit lower the default to give yourself a bit breathing room.

Unless you really want the EXT PS the 302 should really be able to deliver what you need, open your trims up.

I personally buy what I need as needed, ie: when I land a project that requires XYZ I then get XYZ only if I am going to turn a profit otherwise I rent.

I don't feel financing a bunch of gear is the best as it creates extra stress since you need to make a payment every month regardless of your workload. but...

Thanks Scott,

I need some clarification on the level because there are 11 different choices when it comes to meter reference level on the 302.  If I ride the levels at -8 the camera guy will be telling me I need to give him more signal, or am I missing something here.

Thanks,

Bernie

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Bernie,

I run an external 2.2 A/H gel cell for my 302 and get no issues with my CMIT 5U.

I think when you are using other channels as well it does put a bit more of a strain on your

internal batteries ( in my case Energiser Lithiums).The internal batteries stay in all the time.

I also have a mixpre and a AD146 6 in/4 out.

The 146 will run on 12 and 24 volts, but I know from experience that I will always run on 24 for preference as I get a much better transient response.

I suspect if you are just relying on your internal batteries,you are not getting the best out of your mics.

I'm not suggesting that the 302 won't run the mics successfully but you will get a better result with the external supply.

You could try metering the 48 volts from one of the other channels when in using your mic to see if there is any fluctuation but I think you would need a fairly sensitive setup and you might not see much. Have you tried another 302 or any other mixer to see if the CMIT works better on them?

You shouldn't have to run your other mic with a 160 HP filter in. Thats a sure sign you don't have enough oomph in your power supply.

Brian

Didn't mean to give the impression the CMIT doesn't work well, I was wondering if it could be even better with an outboard phantom supply.  I think you're right on the Peluso mic, as Sound Devices has some information on other mics that have the oscillation problem on their web site.  I'm thinking if I don't go for an outboard phantom supply I should at least get an external dc supply for the mixer.

Thanks for your help!

Bernie

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It isn't unusual to have levels between -12 and 0 for dialogue when metering the VU on an SP camera.

Use the mixers PPM/VU meter setting and watch where the peaks hit and where the VU hits in relation to each other.  You will probably find that when the peaks hit +4 to +12 the VU can read as much as a 20db difference on quick transients (leaving your VU levels around -8 or so)

Besides, the meters on SP cameras aren't exactly accurate!!

-Jason

Thanks Scott,

I need some clarification on the level because there are 11 different choices when it comes to meter reference level on the 302.  If I ride the levels at -8 the camera guy will be telling me I need to give him more signal, or am I missing something here.

Thanks,

Bernie

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