lightsofjuarez Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 I've been an avid reader of this forum ever since discovering it a few months ago and wanted to throw out this question I've personally been struggling with... What is the best approach for the new generation of want to be sound mixers to learn and break into the industry? I've gone through countless threads in which many of you are rightfully frustrated by the slew of young guns buying our own equipment and taking low paying gigs just for the experience & connections hoping to be able to afford rent at the end of the month. I completely understand the frustration and damage that accepting low rates creates. However, what I don't understand is that in todays struggling economy, how else are we suppose to get our foot in the door? How is someone starting out going to land an entry level sound utility/cable person position when it's required to have 100 days of non-union work? It's close to impossible for us to go the old school route and learn from more experienced mixers such as many of you due to union restrictions and shrinking budgets. I've been at it for two years now just doing low budget indie films and shorts and am still struggling to get my 100 days. Also, no producer wants to hire someone who has been doing it for two years for the same price as someone whose been doing it for seven. Especially when the only non-union work that any of us can land right now are the low paying craigslist postings and the only way we can even get those gigs is by buying our own equipment. Believe me, I would much rather start as a sound utility and train under an experienced team than to occur eight grand of debt for a basic bag setup. And many of you say get the work first and then get the equipment. What good is it to spend $300 or $400 a day in rental fee's when we're lucky to make that in a day? Maybe I'm missing something here but it just seems like a catch 22. Not all of us come from money or live with our parents or had the luxury of attending film school. Most of us new guys are doing everything we can to make a career out of something we love during hard times and in expensive cities. Something everyone who reads this forum should understand. For the film industry to thrive and continue, there has to be a new generation that will eventually pick up where the previous one left off. I'm sure many of the experienced mixers here we're lucky enough to have help along the way. If no one is willing/able to help train the new generation (and I don't particularly think film school counts), we have to learn the only way we know how. From blind trial and error + debt. The film industry is currently at a turning point. Things are changing in major ways but it's up to all of us (young and old) to try and direct that change into something positive rather than harmful. Many on here will likely attack this post. I get it. You've heard the questions asked a thousand times. I apologize for rambling and stirring the pot yet again but if any of you have suggestions or advice I welcome your insight and experience. - Adrian ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. T. S. Eliot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atheisticmystic Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 I'll check back in on this thread during tomorrow night's baby-feeding. First-Aid, hydrating-liquids, and anxiolytic medication are available at the concession stands. Nitey-nights, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Steven, I think you've found that there is something more important than a Nomad or a 664. <g> Enjoy those feedings and even those sleepless nights -- they're special. Adrian - Fair question. Part of the issue is that if the race to the bottom continues, your future won't be the same as it has been for those before you. One answer to your question is "entry-level low budget indie films." These are usually helmed by beginners so you'll be learning right along with others and you won't be lowering standards because these films haven't begun to learn those standards, yet. What you should do as you grow, is help these beginning filmmakers understand what proper rates are and why, and the fact that if they ever want to be a pro in this business, they'll need to know how to hire other professionals and pay proper wages. If they plan to always make films by low-balling, they shouldn't give up their day job at Walmart. The gigs you shouldn't low-ball is anything commercial, industrial, professional, etc. If those producers keep finding more and more people willing to work for starvation wages "in order to learn," those areas of the industry will become a vast wasteland for anyone wishing to make a worthwhile living. Also remember that one of your best resources for gigs is other sound mixers. If you undercut their rate, you'll eliminate this resource. Gotta board a plane. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Thomas Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 From my experience getting started (I'm still a newbie) I find this is true. However I've come to accept a couple of ground rules: 1- Never go out for less than kit rental, whether you own kit or not. Any less and you're giving them money and cutting out those who don't own any gear from getting started. You'll also need that money for maintenance/replacement gear- see the Senator's excellent 'Cutting the Grass' thread (see, he does make useful contributions). This goes for shorts etc where it's likely that they're using the project to move on to bigger things. 2- If it's a commercial project (i.e. there's a client, be it corporate, tv etc), charge full market rate- don't feel obliged to undercut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McL Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 You're correct to characterize your position as a 'Catch 22'. It's your job now to be creative and make those connections that will serve your entire career. Some of it's luck. Some's just showing up. If you don't show up, it's less likely you'll get lucky. Figure it out. In the meantime, best have another source of income. Figure it out. A lot of what we do involves figuring stuff out. This is good practice. At various points in the last twenty, I spent months...months...putting my conscious mind to the issue every time I had a free brain moment to devote to finding answers. Months. Plan to cogitate the next rung during the week-long train ride to and from LA next week. There's always another rung. No less than 35 people told me not to get into the business when I started. Guess I'll add my voice to your own list of people who will tell you, "Don't do it." If after all those people discourage you, you still feel you must, then by all means, do, and do it with everyfuckingthing you've got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henchman Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 I would say, do the non union Craigslist indie gigs with the goal of getting your union hours. Then try and get a union gig as a boom op working with soemeon with credits and experience, so you can learn from a pro how to,do things right. Instead of becoming just another untrained mixer with a union card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 " I've been at it for two years now just doing low budget indie films and shorts and am still struggling to get my 100 days. " keep in mind that you need payroll days for the the CSATF roster... Yes, you learn on those lo-no budget projects, but you might be learning a bunch of bad stuff, too... yep there are a lot of catch-22's out there, and you are experiencing one of them... as for getting into the union: remember this: Nepotism begins at home! IOW, it has always been an issues, unless you were born into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 I can't speak for soundies in major markets, but I did exactly what you are doing more or less, except the equipment in those days was much more expensive to make lesser quality recordings than can be done with a "shaver" recorder today, and there was a lot less general knowledge about sound among producers and directors then (if you can believe that). The key point: make your self available, and STAY available. For anything, anywhere, anytime. You have to stay in the game until your luck turns. This field (for some reason) attracts a lot of bright, talented people. The ones who succeed are A: lucky and B: tenacious and C: hard working. Good luck! phil p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Miramontes Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 keep in mind that you need payroll days for the the CSATF roster... This is very important!!! You're shooting yourself in the foot if you accept cash on those small gigs. If you can show a cashed check then you will get credit for that time. I learned this the hard way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henchman Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 What philip says is true. It is a long term career goal. Not a job. And there is no guarantee it will pay off. It is the same in audio-post. People without the real drive and conviction come and go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henchman Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Rich definitely has a point. Market is everything. It's the same in my field. I know a lot of guys spending a lot of money buying big fast Macs, full Protools HD rigs, spending money converting a room or a garage into a semi mix sweet, to do gigs that pay next to nothing. I am just now thinking about putting together a small setup in my office with a Mac mini and Pts HD native software. Think before you apply the "Buy it and they will come" mantra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 " if you just match the prices of the rental houses, " here is the point: if you charge less than reasonable rates for your equipment, you are investing your $$ in their project. If you charge only a proper rental rate for "all in", then you are working for free! and another bad habit you will learn about is flat rates for labor! (thus also investing your $$ in their project!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Burstein Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 One of the things you'll do by renting gear in starting out, is to develop a long standing relationship with the rental house of your choice. This will help you in several ways, rental houses offer discounts to preferred customers, and if they hear of someone looking for a sound person, they just might recommend you. Rich Van Dyke +1. I'd also like to add that while this forum is great for solving technical issues, it's not as practical as talking to a person directly. These good standings with rental houses will also provide technical support if anything should happen on set. One gig had us in the middle of the desert at night and the timecode slate I rented stopped working. Robert Noon at LSC on his way home from the rental house dropped off a brand new slate and helped me figure a few things out. That's going way beyond and out of their way, and man did I appreciate it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Rather than buying gear and working cheap, and not getting to learn anything, try booming for cheap for other mixers on projects who are insisting they don't have money for a boom op. The mixer will appreciate the additional staff. The project will get better sound, probably. You'll learn something (what works and what doesn't). You'll experience working with different gear, etc. New people get in the union all the time. And it's usually due to a mixer finding someone they like to work with, and bringing them along on a low-budget project which will get you the days you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henchman Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 Rather than buying gear and working cheap, and not getting to learn anything, try booming for cheap for other mixers on projects who are insisting they don't have money for a boom op. The mixer will appreciate the additional staff. The project will get better sound, probably. You'll learn something (what works and what doesn't). You'll experience working with different gear, etc. New people get in the union all the time. And it's usually due to a mixer finding someone they like to work with, and bringing them along on a low-budget project which will get you the days you need. Amen. That's the way to go. Learn to walk before you try to run and stumble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 New people get in the union all the time. And it's usually due to a mixer finding someone they like to work with, and bringing them along on a low-budget project which will get you the days you need. It's actually easier to get in the Union today, more than any other time. When I was just getting started it took me 7 years to get into the Union. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.