Rainier Davenport Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 The Client and Producers were all a bit upset today as the monitors they were watching were so badly out of/behind sync the sound on their Comtecs that they had to stop using them. Does anyone know any way I can delay the sound only using a 744T and a 442 in a portable rig? The dialogue goes out of the 442 into a lectro IFB transmitter. Alternatively, does anyone know if there is a way to speed up the image being outputted from the Epic into two LCD monitors? Even after proving that there was no delay in the sound and that the monitors oe Epic were behind, they still didn't believe me. Lucky the Clients and Producers were close enough to hear without using the IFB receivers. But this won't be the case on the next day of shooting. Anyone got any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Sorry to say but this is a problem that we as sound mixers are responsible for. Since the Video Delay is inevitable we are the only solution for the problem. ERX1 ERX2 are a great tool for the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimPitot Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Did you invent the ERX1 and ERX2, or just the workflows associated with them? Just wondering how you are responsible for this? It must be a heavy burden for you to bare. ^^ ninja edit.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg sextro Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Portable delay units have been discussed here many times. Try doing a search. Tim, I believe Rado is saying that he feels responsible as a sound man to correct the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 People are usually stunned when you match the sound with the picture. They are not used to it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Digital VIDEO processing is the source of the delay. Also, if the video assist department is using consumer monitors, rather than professional monitors that can handle a true 23.976P signal, the problem will be significantly worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al mcguire Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 IIRC if the sound comes before the video the soundguy still gets fired being synchronous is our responsibility Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainier Davenport Posted October 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 What about the Delay Input Track option in the menu of the 744, will that help at at all, i could then output to the IFB TX from the 744? Just an idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 just bought a small delay box from markertek for 80 bucks, check it out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 " Does anyone know any way I can delay the sound only using a 744T and a 442 in a portable rig? " requires additional equipment... " Alternatively, does anyone know if there is a way to speed up the image being outputted from the Epic into two LCD monitors? " probably not where have you been ? this issue has been around for years... " they still didn't believe me. " where have they been ? this issue has been around for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmgoodin Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 You don't want to mess with the delay in the 744t because that would change the relationship of the audio sync to the time code. Since the Video delay is happening due to processing of the output video for the monitor, you need an external delay that will only affect the feed to the comteks or to speakers for the monitors.. The Behringer Shark DSP can delay audio up to 2.5 seconds and costs under a hundred bucks. http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHFBQ100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 IIRC if the sound comes before the video the soundguy still gets fired being synchronous is our responsibility Really? This seems a bit extreme. Either I've never mixed a production that had this problem, or I've been extremely lucky not to be fired?... for video delay?... www.notmydepartment.com It's one thing for production to ask if one can help find a solution, but to expect the sound dept. to solve a video delay issue - under the threat of being fired - just seems a bit far fetched to me. Maybe I'm mixing in a smaller bubble than I thought? (I mean, I know it's small, but...) ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 When this happens I have A: delayed the Comtek feed or B: made the source of the Comtek feed the audio output of the camera (if it has one, and I am feeding it). Many cameras delay the audio so that it is in sync with the picture output (to the recording). Dealing with the delay if you are in a walking/bag rig is a drag, can be done with a 2-stage hop via a base-station. philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Ok - No, you can't "speed up" the video signal. If they are curious about what signal is to blame, you can either A - explain that you are not defying the laws of physics by getting sound to them faster than a "live" video image, or B - just have them watch the real actors talking. It will become apparent that your Comteks are live and the video is delayed. They should then "believe" you. If they can't get over the delay on the monitors (caused by the VIDEO signal chain), then there are options as described above or in several other searchable threads. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 When this happens I have A: delayed the Comtek feed or B: made the source of the Comtek feed the audio output of the camera (if it has one, and I am feeding it). Many cameras delay the audio so that it is in sync with the picture output (to the recording). Dealing with the delay if you are in a walking/bag rig is a drag, can be done with a 2-stage hop via a base-station. philp Option A definitely sounds like a better way to go... in any case, I suppose adding a delay unit to the kit might be in order... I guess I've just been really lucky to never have had this issue. ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 The Shark is always with me. Used it once. But only to satisfy the curiosity of a director who was convinced he could perceive a delay of a handful of milliseconds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Guess I'll be adding a Shark to the kit (I suppose an old Lexicon MPX1 might be overkill? : ) ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Holesome Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 The Shark is always with me. Used it once. But only to satisfy the curiosity of a director who was convinced he could perceive a delay of a handful of milliseconds. If you have a hand-full of milliseconds to worry about, you have too much time on your hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 The Shark is always with me. Used it once. But only to satisfy the curiosity of a director who was convinced he could perceive a delay of a handful of milliseconds. I worked with a wireless video system that had 2 seconds delay. it was very confusing for giving cam ops direction... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RScottATL Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 If you have a hand-full of milliseconds to worry about, you have too much time on your hands. Just put them in your pocket and keep on working. I still haven't heard anyone discuss putting a loudspeaker 40 feet away and cranking it up..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Tresch Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Epic fail again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Joachim Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 http://www.locationsound.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=shark+FBQ100 In stock! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainier Davenport Posted October 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 You don't want to mess with the delay in the 744t because that would change the relationship of the audio sync to the time code. Since the Video delay is happening due to processing of the output video for the monitor, you need an external delay that will only affect the feed to the comteks or to speakers for the monitors.. The Behringer Shark DSP can delay audio up to 2.5 seconds and costs under a hundred bucks. http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHFBQ100 Thankyou for your suggestion, this was exactly the kind of help I was looking for. I'm going to go and see if I can pick one of these up somewhere. Even though I don't want to buy it, I have a feeling this is not going to be the last time I'll be having this problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afewmoreyears Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 http://www.locations...ds=shark FBQ100 In stock! Have one and it works great.... but be aware... AC only... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainier Davenport Posted October 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 When this happens I have A: delayed the Comtek feed or B: made the source of the Comtek feed the audio output of the camera (if it has one, and I am feeding it). Many cameras delay the audio so that it is in sync with the picture output (to the recording). Dealing with the delay if you are in a walking/bag rig is a drag, can be done with a 2-stage hop via a base-station. philp Thanks for even understanding how this is a problem in a bag rig! I did change the comtek feed to the Epic during the day, but even the audio from the camera was still infront of the picture. Really? This seems a bit extreme. Either I've never mixed a production that had this problem, or I've been extremely lucky not to be fired?... for video delay?... www.notmydepartment.com It's one thing for production to ask if one can help find a solution, but to expect the sound dept. to solve a video delay issue - under the threat of being fired - just seems a bit far fetched to me. Maybe I'm mixing in a smaller bubble than I thought? (I mean, I know it's small, but...) ~tt This is the first time this has ever happened to me as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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