Rainier Davenport Posted October 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Have one and it works great.... but be aware... AC only... Oh no! AC only, that's no good for the Bag Rig! Damm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 " no good for the Bag " put it at the monitor end (at the village!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate C Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 Hi Rainier have a look at this thread. There is some talk about using guitar delay pedals about two thirds of the way down. Cheers Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 As a SD user there is another option for you - the 788T has up to 10 frames delay built in as of v2.18 10 frames not enough especially with wireless video systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 10 frames not enough especially with wireless video systems If there's more than a 10 frame delay, then there's something wrong with the system. Any professional video system will have a barely noticeable delay, even down-converting HD to composite. If they're using a prosumer WiFi video system, then all bets are off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisnewton Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 Show I'm working on now (long time clients) just put up with the delay problem. They are used to it, I guess. have a colleague who uses the SHARC and loves it. video transmission certainly is a crapshoot. we are currently feeding SDI via a Terradek TX to an on-set Mac mini acting as a server for playing back scenes for scripty and director. Techs couldn't get SDI embodied audio out of RED Epic. turns out it's yet another RED quirk: Terradek won't recognize EPIC SDI sound stream. Put G3 feed into Terradek, works fine, but.. the other day got big picture delays on playback to I-Pad network. No idea why. Haven't been fired yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Lightstone, CAS Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 For bag use I have a CyberPower 750AI Inverter converts 12v DC automobile power to standard 120v AC home power - up to 750 watts. I purchased it from MacMall for $69.99. It has two - 2 prong ac outlets, very handy when you need to power an AC only unit in a pinch. http://www.macmall.c...281~pdp.efjcihb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 The Client and Producers were all a bit upset today as the monitors they were watching were so badly out of/behind sync the sound on their Comtecs that they had to stop using them. Make sure they know that the picture is late, and the sound is not causing the problem (per se). Camera processing delays of 3-4 frames are not unusual. Generally, I use about 33ms per frame as a guideline. The box that Scott Farr recommends will work -- the 100ms position is 3 frames, which will get the sound much closer. And as he points out, the 788 has built-in delays on certain routed outputs, as I think the Nomad also has. Many viewers are thrown for a loop when sound arrives early. SMPTE did a study about 20 years ago where they found that viewers can tolerate late sound much more easily than early sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsnd Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 they didn't believe it was camera that was late? Did they think the sound was traveling through time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jozzafunk Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 Why not send the audio to vid split and they send it to IFB, then it's their problem - and they'll possibly have the dial in delay - our locals do anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 " SMPTE did a study about 20 years ago where they found that viewers can tolerate late sound much more easily than early sound. " this should not be surprising, as in real life, we hear things a bit after we see them, as sound travels so much more slowly than light.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 Did you invent the ERX1 and ERX2, or just the workflows associated with them? Just wondering how you are responsible for this? It must be a heavy burden for you to bare. ^^ ninja edit.. The reason Rado is so into the ERX2 monitor is that it is the only solution that will provide a personal delay for each user. On location one delay timing does not fit all when it comes to audio monitoring on set. For example the director will need a different delay than the camera man. The added advantages of vastly better monitor audio quality, time code display and 1K tone block are not too shabby either. Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted October 13, 2012 Report Share Posted October 13, 2012 Guess I'll be adding a Shark to the kit (I suppose an old Lexicon MPX1 might be overkill? : ) ~tt It might be MUCH easier to program than the Shark--I use an old Alesis Quadraverb II for this and I can have 2 separate channels with diff delays, name and save the patches and have the patches able to be called up instantly. You can find old MI sfx boxes like this very cheap these days on CL. All of them can do simple delays if you can clean out all the gack in a factory patch, pgm what you want and save it to a user memory. philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Tresch Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 Techs couldn't get SDI embodied audio out of RED Epic. turns out it's yet another RED quirk: Terradek won't recognize EPIC SDI sound stream. Terradeck's fault, RED's fault... who cares if your set up don't work. I know that SDI embodied audio out of Epic work great if you use a Pix240 for exemple. So are there warious SDI standards? Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 http://www.avtoolbox.com/ap411.shtml yup, ordered this one. will report back after i check it out and IF i need to use it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainier Davenport Posted October 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 Hi Rainier have a look at this thread. There is some talk about using guitar delay pedals about two thirds of the way down. Cheers Nathan Hello Nathan, now that's the kind of solution I'm looking for! I get a little concerned about trying to put this into my bag rig but it probably might work. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainier Davenport Posted October 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 Terradeck's fault, RED's fault... who cares if your set up don't work. I know that SDI embodied audio out of Epic work great if you use a Pix240 for exemple. So are there warious SDI standards? Pat I just realised that the Dop had a little one of these kind of recorders on the Epic as well and it outputted audio through a 3.5 jack. This probably why the monitors would not pass sound either. I had to plug in a little Remote Audio Speaker so we could hear playback. Perhaps if I took the comtek feed from this recorder it might have enough delay there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Henke Posted October 14, 2012 Report Share Posted October 14, 2012 The Client and Producers were all a bit upset today as the monitors they were watching were so badly out of/behind sync the sound on their Comtecs that they had to stop using them. Does anyone know any way I can delay the sound only using a 744T and a 442 in a portable rig? The dialogue goes out of the 442 into a lectro IFB transmitter. Alternatively, does anyone know if there is a way to speed up the image being outputted from the Epic into two LCD monitors? Even after proving that there was no delay in the sound and that the monitors oe Epic were behind, they still didn't believe me. Lucky the Clients and Producers were close enough to hear without using the IFB receivers. But this won't be the case on the next day of shooting. Anyone got any ideas? I am getting a Kramer delay that production is buying for me. It is pretty small, balanced in and out, and runs on 12volts. Darrell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 I just realised that the Dop had a little one of these kind of recorders on the Epic as well and it outputted audio through a 3.5 jack. This probably why the monitors would not pass sound either. I had to plug in a little Remote Audio Speaker so we could hear playback. Perhaps if I took the comtek feed from this recorder it might have enough delay there? Very possible that it will be at least closer--check it out before you go all techno. philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainier Davenport Posted October 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 I did feed the IFB from the auxiliary recorder on the Epic and this provided an approximate match to the delayed monitor. What an extremely frustrating day though, as the Epic seems to be one giant 'Work Around' problem solving effort. I only realised the DOP has the auxiliary recorder on the Epic because it can't playback picture and sound at the same time. As the script has legal implications it was imperative that the clients and producers could hear the scripted dialogue. Towards the afternoon, the Blockhead DOP notices the auxiliary recorder has run out of battery and does not replace it, thus the client comes on to set angry that they can't hear the dialogue. When I ask the DOP to replace the battery, he says that he does not have any more charged! Another note, there was no Video Village either, the two Panasonic Monitors were being fed direct from the output of the Epic down a 30 foot long BNC. Hardly a cause of serious delay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainier Davenport Posted October 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 I am getting a Kramer delay that production is buying for me. It is pretty small, balanced in and out, and runs on 12volts. Darrell I've never heard of Kramer before but there are three pretty interesting models, VA-256D, VA-256P and VA-680D but they only do S/PDIF, TOSLINK & AES/EBU. This is sort of what I would like, a small box with an XLR input and Output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Henke Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 I've never heard of Kramer before but there are three pretty interesting models, VA-256D, VA-256P and VA-680D but they only do S/PDIF, TOSLINK & AES/EBU. This is sort of what I would like, a small box with an XLR input and Output. Kramer makes video equipment. The unit I have is analog with Phoenix connectors. It is small and lightweight. The 12v connector is the standard coaxial 2.1mm. DH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisnewton Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Patrick, production cares if they can't get the audio they want for whatever they want it for, so I care. I don't believe there are different SDI protocols, but I've been told the Terradek won't recognize the Epic's SDI audio component. The G2 feed to the Terradek works fine. Anyone any experience with Terradek? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S Harber Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 We had massive failure with the Terradek on Gangster Squad. Worked fine on a steady cam during various setups. Didn't when we had some heavy hitters loaded in and after last looks. Not sure what made it fail but it wasn't pretty. Really too bad as it's a cool system and it must be a hard decision to know as a manufacturer when to get the gear out to be used as soon as possible yet risk one's reputation in putting a not ready for prime time/beta testing units out for use. Either way, I'm sure the DP isn't going to have one on his set for a good while and Terradek really lost the bet on this instance. This was about a year ago so I'm sure they've ironed out the kinks. On the delaying the comtek feed side of things, another aspect is that the delay will make the director nuts as they go in closer to the actors and have that delay happening which could necessitate another non-delayed system or putting that person on PL. Scott Harber CAS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 On the delaying the comtek feed side of things, another aspect is that the delay will make the director nuts as they go in closer to the actors and have that delay happening which could necessitate another non-delayed system or putting that person on PL. Scott Harber CAS This is always a concern if the Director's style is to sit at Video Village for the most part but then often goes onto the set to watch and listen in "real time" during a take or a rehearsal. On the last movie, the other factor was that when the Director would speak loudly to the set and the mic on the set could hear it, it made it difficult to speak while hearing it delayed. This is a problem that cannot be solved, even with the use of the ERX (that can be set for different delays or no delay depending on the listening situation). The only solution is to have multiple sets of listening devices available and have the willingness to be changing out headphones all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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