studiomprd Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 " (Panny 3200) had an MKH60 with a proper softie on it " Panavision ?? " Trust me, production knows it, he won't be back for second season, I will. " Well, I'm sure production knows something about you, as well, and based on this opening post of yours, no one from here would ever trust you... and even if they are humoring you... we'll see who is back, if the show is even back! " I black list these guys but WTF? " and who 'da hell are you? " It's true most Reality mixers are absolutely embarrassing when they boom, with their shotguns 7 feet away from the action and pointed over the "talent's" heads. It's always annoyed me tremendously. I " most folks doing pack mule audio are primarily trackers. typically the reason for the boom is for un-mic'ed folks that come into the action, and other than those situations, they are typically preferred to stay out of the way, and maybe add a little ambiance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundmachine Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 " (Panny 3200) had an MKH60 with a proper softie on it " Panavision ?? " Trust me, production knows it, he won't be back for second season, I will. " Well, I'm sure production knows something about you, as well, and based pn this opening post of yours, no one from here would ever trust you... and even if they are humoring you... we'll see who is back, if the show is even back! " I black list these guys but WTF? " and who 'da hell are you? " It's true most Reality mixers are absolutely embarrassing when they boom, with their shotguns 7 feet away from the action and pointed over the "talent's" heads. It's always annoyed me tremendously. I " most folks doing pack mule audio are primarily trackers. typically the reason for the boom is for un-mic'ed folks that come into the action, and other than those situations, they are typically preferred to stay out of the way, and maybe add a little ambiance +1 to everything the Senator said here! It sounds to me like OP may be mistaking the great "two hands in the air" style by watching to many boom operators on film sets. These guys are trying to get really close, granted, but they also have the luxury of rehearsals and SCRIPTED DIALOGUE! Not to mention in most cases the talent is also wired as a fall back. A sound mixer with video feeds to tell said boom op what the frame size is, and any spots that may be trouble. Im not sure how many reality shows he has worked on, but its pretty hard to boom more than 1 person (let alone more than 3) when there is no script, no marks, no rehearsals and tons of overlap??? The best thing to happen to us poor soldiers toiling in the trenches of reality tv is multi tracks, SrA's and PFL's. IMHO Op sounds like a backstabber, and not someone I would want to see on any of the projects I work on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john Quinn Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 The great thing about JW Sound is we are a community whose aim is to help each other and to help raise the skill level of all our members.A courtesy that we offer to even you Tim and one that maybe you should offer to your HOD. Best John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 " Op sounds like a backstabber, " Op sounds like a smart-ass know-it-all backstabber, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewFreedAudio Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 The boom does scare me. I'm always afraid that fuzzy thing at the end is going to bite me. I'm also afraid of having both arms above my head. What happens if I can't get them back down? What if they get stuck up there?! Seriously, the boom is nothing to be trifled with; it is one mean, ignorant son of a bitch and I would never turn my back in it...much like the OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewFreedAudio Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Tim, perhaps a different approach you could have taken was saying "the lead sound mixer on this gig seems to rely heavily on wireless and rarely uses the boom. It's not what I would do but what are some situations where the boom would almost never be used?" Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 OP: be careful what you wish for....and "Pride goeth before a......" On lots of TV, even pretty classy stuff, the bosses just want the boom as a back up or for non-dialog stuff--anything scripted or planned is meant to be laved, and the shooters are not thinking about avoiding a boom at all. On the shows I worked on in the last 2 yrs there is rarely if ever a Take 2 on dialog stuff--the presenter kind of makes it up as he goes along, and the shooter is good enough that he nearly always gets the shot. That's their MO, and it's their show not mine. Nice folks, I like to make them happy. Heavy verite, drama, etc are just very different jobs, all about the boom, often. The kind of TV that's being described, not really, any more. philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 We may have scared Tim off. I remind him that there's a lot to be learned from this motley collection of sound practitioners. We're admittedly a "tough room," and most of us are as opinionated as the O.P. However, many here have the years of experience, gained through hard knocks, to make it a worthwhile trait (sometimes). Forgive us if we're being too harsh. We're a direct and honest bunch, which can be hard to take but great to learn from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toy Robot Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 The boom does scare me. I'm always afraid that fuzzy thing at the end is going to bite me. I'm also afraid of having both arms above my head. What happens if I can't get them back down? What if they get stuck up there?! Seriously, the boom is nothing to be trifled with; it is one mean, ignorant son of a bitch and I would never turn my back in it...much like the OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 I had a reality shoot awhile back (an experience that convinced me I am so not a reality guy, but I don't turn down work), where the director was pretty insistent I use the boom in addition to wireless lavs 100% of the time. I had the gear, the rate was fine, so I went for it. But a couple times, the boom was completely unusable due to unstoppable air conditioning, massive interior noise, lighting issues, you name it. The long takes did not help. I'm a short guy with bad shoulders -- booming is not my friend. This is why I hire boom ops. But... I survived the shoot to fight another day. And we did get some superb sounds in difficult places, though I don't think the director appreciated it. And in cases where we had sitdown interviews with the boom on a stand, well-placed in good acoustics, the sound was phenomenal. I agree that mixing with one hand while carting around a half-dozen wireless is a specialized skill not for the faint-of-heart, especially under the gun in unpredictable circumstances. I have great respect for those who can do this well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Miramontes Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 We may have scared Tim off. I remind him that there's a lot to be learned from this motley collection of sound practitioners. We're admittedly a "tough room," and most of us are as opinionated as the O.P. However, many here have the years of experience, gained through hard knocks, to make it a worthwhile trait (sometimes). Forgive us if we're being too harsh. We're a direct and honest bunch, which can be hard to take but great to learn from. Yeah, what John said. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Childers Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 I agree that mixing with one hand while carting around a half-dozen wireless is a specialized skill not for the faint-of-heart, especially under the gun in unpredictable circumstances. I have great respect for those who can do this well. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Burstein Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 We may have scared Tim off. I remind him that there's a lot to be learned from this motley collection of sound practitioners. We're admittedly a "tough room," and most of us are as opinionated as the O.P. However, many here have the years of experience, gained through hard knocks, to make it a worthwhile trait (sometimes). Forgive us if we're being too harsh. We're a direct and honest bunch, which can be hard to take but great to learn from. Great to learn from indeed. I've embarrassed myself a few times here but still appreciate the feedback. I'd rather learn from my mistakes here than on location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollandaudio Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 day played on a reality show last month. Had my rig ready: 5 wires, wireless hops, nice boom. First thing out of a producers mouth, after I had wired talent was, 'The executive producer doesn't like booms' Their attitude I shortly learned was get everyone with a wire and then if there are unexpected interactions with the characters then use the boom. The creator of the show doesn't like booms. . . go figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 From my own personal observations, reasons to boom on unscripted shows... 1) physical activity requires moving in, like hugs, climbing over something, rolling on floor, etc... 2) OTFs where one would move to a more traditional boom/lav split for safety or options for post, very much like a studio ADR setup or typical doc work. 3) to grab something between ambience and general Dx to give the post mixer a track to float during crossfades, sort of a editor's glue... this can often look like a "lazy ass sound mixer just holding the boom above the general vicinity of someone's head" 4) or just when it adds something to the mix or will flat out sound better than lavs alone, IF it does not interfere with your job of providing a mix for the show that first and foremost requires intelligible dialogue for post to cut with. I'm sure there are others, but those are the ones that come to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Tirrell Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 There is also the belief that the presence of things like tripods or in this case booms makes it less real and makes people react differently. Personally I have always thought that that was what the camera crew was for but hey I'm just some no name shooter/sound guy. If I was at the pay level to think up stuff like that I would not have to worry about weather or not I will need the big Motrin after a days work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Childers Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 "I ain't afraid of no ghost"....or boom in our case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordi Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 The reality game is a WAY different beast than scripted drama... Holding the boom "properly" is flat-out impossible when you are the ONLY LINK between audio from the noisemaker and the camera / recorder that is capturing it. If you aren't keeping one hand available to at least attempt an actual mix, you aren't doing the show any good service. I've been on each type - ones where the producer thinks any excess gear (like a boom) would make the performance "less real" from the talent (and I DID ask the question "What about the camera guy in his face?" - the question was not pleasing)... I've also been on the type where the producer wanted boom on EVERYTHING, even when it was patently useless - indoors in a cement gymnasium filled with jet-turbine engines starting up... And finally, where they actually let me do the job I was hired for, and do it to the best of my ability, my way. Coincidentally, that last one is also the category that thankfully has happened the most, and while I have used the boom (had to, b/c of one of the main talent unable to be wired) they didn't care how it was held as long as the SOUND got the job done. The sound was fantastic, as it should be. In all things however, the boom was a distant second to the lavs in what they wanted. For anyone working in reality TV that "grew up" with the notion that all sound everywhere is best captured only by the boom... I'm sorry, but I think your place is elsewhere in the industry. You will not be fulfilled in reality TV, they will not respect you because they do not respect the boom or proper boom technique. Wireless technology has advanced a LOT, and producers are comfortable with that sound... No matter what we might think about the quality. At the same time, I've learned how to make them sound very similar to the boom sound... So I don't mind leaving the boom in the car. I'm one of the only mixers I know using the K-Tek articulating pole, and frankly, I think that pole was invented specifically to help the OMB mixer be able to boom semi-effectively and still retain a hand for mixing. The angled section stays close to my body, the base against my hip, and I'm no longer carrying all that weight with my shoulder, and the mic still is overhead and out of the shot. I know what proper boom operator technique is. I've done it on short-form dramatic projects... And I have had to push all that knowledge to the side and learn how to do it "wrong" to make it work on reality TV. The biggest suggestion I have for any mixer - Do what the client wants, and in the way the client wants it. That makes them happy, which makes you paid. Trying to blacklist anybody or talking bad about them... This is a VERY VERY small community, and frankly... Tim, if we were to meet in real life on a set somewhere... I wouldn't turn my back on you either. The ONLY thing we carry with us is our reputation. I guard mine fiercely, and work extremely hard to make it a good one. Yours, I'm afraid, has just been given a very nasty self-inflicted wound. Hopefully you can learn from this group - They have taught (and continue to teach) me an amazing amount of things, not the least of which is how small an industry this really is. Everybody knows everybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 Black list due to their posture, wow really? Did the show sound like crap in the end, or is that not important? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_bollard Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 In my experience (and I do lot of reality work) booms are discouraged by producers (and cam ops) because they want framing freedom to go wider if needed without worrying about booms appearing in shot. On larger set pieces there is usually a jib/techno camera in play that will always stitch up any attempt to throw a boom over the top of and group hug situation. And to be brutally honest not all sound ops are on their game enough to sensibly judge when is the right time to pole up and when to keep right out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 I think the non-booming mixer posted a response to this on Facebook, or somebody else in the same situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Woodcock Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 I think the non-booming mixer posted a response to this on Facebook, or somebody else in the same situation. Link please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordi Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 And to be brutally honest not all sound ops are on their game enough to sensibly judge when is the right time to pole up and when to keep right out. This. I'm man enough to admit that about myself - mostly because I'm too busy concentrating on the quality of my MIX, which according to my job title, is what they hired me for. I don't see a problem with that. As for the link, I'm not sure if everyone will be able to see it, but the post was by someone named Vlady Garcia. http://www.facebook.com/groups/ineedanaudiomixer/ He does seem like the opposite number to our buddy Tim from the first post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Woodcock Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 This. I'm man enough to admit that about myself - mostly because I'm too busy concentrating on the quality of my MIX, which according to my job title, is what they hired me for. I don't see a problem with that. As for the link, I'm not sure if everyone will be able to see it, but the post was by someone named Vlady Garcia. http://www.facebook....edanaudiomixer/ He does seem like the opposite number to our buddy Tim from the first post. post up the transcript it would be nice to know how the other poor fella feels about all of this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordi Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 post up the transcript it would be nice to know how the other poor fella feels about all of this Sorry, no. Not when I don't know for certain that he IS referring to the original poster here, and even then... Too much like gossip for my taste. The link should bring you to the group, the last time I looked, it was right at the top of the page b/c there hasn't been much activity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.