Marc Wielage Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Even without the Epic price drop, they still are Nr1 in price/spec. We could also see RED's moove as kikking the ass of some fat boys that want to over charge the film community. I don't think it's that simple. For a recent shoot, I spec'd out a 2-week rental on an Arri Alexa package vs. a Red Epic package, and I think they were only about $400 apart (total). The Alexa was more expensive, but you have to trade that off with the fact that the AC could hand files to an assistant editor and immediately start doing an offline with them. And there are camera people who prefer the Alexa (like Roger Deakins, who just shot the new blockbuster Bond film). So it's not a black & white comparison. Bear in mind that many productions don't buy cameras -- it's almost always a rental, and the real expense is lenses and lighting. The camera isn't that significant an expense. Note to The Senator: Panavision also rents lots of Red Cameras! But I don't dispute that their biggest profit item is lenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Tresch Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Deakins telling that 2k is enough for an Imax release? ;-) Well I won't tell my experience about Alexa, Panavision (Paris) and Epic... it would be too long. But as we are speaking of the F55. You can hear the raw recorder at 13'00''. I hope we can switch it off. I was biginning to like this camera. http://www.sony.nl/p...s-pmw-f55-video Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 " it would be too long. " installments (episodes) are welcome... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacquesstar Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 Looks like a badass camera. Supposed to have 14 stops of latitude. Finally, glad to see a usable viewfinder and shoulder pad, no more messing with a bunch of clumsy rigs, I have never liked any of the shoulder rigs for cine style cameras and I always found them uncomfortable or lacking in some department, that is why I always liked shooting on the Varicam. I'm looking forward to hearing reviews once this one comes out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 Deakins telling that 2k is enough for an Imax release? Uprezzed to 4K, as are many, many effects-heavy films these days where most of the VFX are done at 2K. Hugo was also shot on Alexa and uprezzed to 4K, and one the Oscar for Bob Richardson (his third). I generally tend to listen to DPs who have more Oscars than I do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Tresch Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 I respect Deakins and Richardson's work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted November 2, 2012 Report Share Posted November 2, 2012 The Red Camera company has just reacted to the Sony cameras announcement today by slashing prices. There's a very nice analysis at this link on NoFilmSchool.com: http://tinyurl.com/au2g5rj The new Sony 4K cameras apparently scared them quite a bit -- even though the Sony's have yet to be priced, and won't be out until February! Prices start at $4000 for the original camera, $8000 for the Scarlet (which won't do slo-mo), and $19,000 for the Epic (which goes up to 120fps). Compare that to $40,000 for the Epic just last week. These are weird times... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Flaitz Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 The Red Camera company has just reacted to the Sony cameras announcement today by slashing prices. There's a very nice analysis at this link on NoFilmSchool.com: http://tinyurl.com/au2g5rj The new Sony 4K cameras apparently scared them quite a bit -- even though the Sony's have yet to be priced, and won't be out until February! Prices start at $4000 for the original camera, $8000 for the Scarlet (which won't do slo-mo), and $19,000 for the Epic (which goes up to 120fps). Compare that to $40,000 for the Epic just last week. These are weird times... Oh boy... It's getting harder and harder to justify buying gear with such sudden price changes. Several Nomad threads come to mind, but that was a matter of a thousand or two as opposed to $20k. Some things are easily justified (microphones can hold their value for a decade) but a fully digital machine can become obsolete so quickly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 Yes, some of the Red owners are screaming, especially if they bought two $40,000 cameras a few months ago, and now those cameras are worth $19,000 each (brand new)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Tresch Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 Old price: EPIC-X is now available on RED.com for $27,500 (brain only) Price increase after some months to : EPIC-X $34,500 New price: 5K EPIC-X Brain- $19,000 = this makes between 30% and 45% discount. If you where lucky enough to have a RED ONE and trade it in for 17500.-- (stage 3) you paid your Epic 10'000.-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
api Posted November 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 I did ask about the audio module on the Sony Facebook chat and if my memory serves me right, they did say that the audio and timecode modules will be standard, but removable. I believe that would make it the first S35 format digital cinema camera with 24 bit / 48 khz 4-channel recording and AES3 inputs on XLR connectors built in. With RED, AES inputs are an extra purchase. With the proper XLR-lemo cable it's an extra cost of $4000 or so. I'm not sure who would use the RED pro i/o module for actual production sound, but that is one of the functionalities it is marketed with. On the other hand, Sony has a great history of designing robust and easy to work with codecs. XAVC will probably make 4K a lot more accessible to many post production workflows. 4 channel 24 bit/48 Khz audio synchronized to picture will make direct XAVC editing even more appealing... especially for fast turnaround projects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 " We have learned how to make EPICs in quantity, lowered our assembly costs, found better suppliers and paid off our NRE. " here, have another cup of Kool-Aid... " WOW good job Red ...This is why i love this company.... Wonderful, you guys are awesome.... Simply amazing, Jim. Thank you.... I can pretty much assure you that if we hired a factory somewhere else to build our product, we would never catch wind of those efficiencies. " " (keeping in mind the price was initially lower before it went up) $6k? " now, about the fan...grape, yum, great stuff... " <116 more pages of the same> " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 No, no, Senator -- there's some scathing critiques of Red in the same discussion. (Some of them have been removed, because I think they cut too close to the bone, but they keep popping up in other spots.) Read this: Red User Group: Feel Robbed! I still want to know why these "lowered assembly costs" and "NRE eliminations" didn't affect anything but the camera bodies. Somebody pointed out that a 3.5mm mini-phone plug to an XLR is still $80 on the Red site. None of the accessories, including the Pro I/O module, cables, batteries, or SSDs, has dropped a penny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 " there's some scathing critiques of Red in the same discussion " yes, of course... 116 pages of posts! guess the accessories are all OEM or some other excuse... but yes, of course, they are basically lowering their huge premium markup... those so called NRE's are an accounting trick, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Tresch Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 I know a manufacturer that have to sell 50 cameras to get ROI, and It's not RED. ;-) Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris McCallum Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 I shot with the F65 and had no audio issues at all Impressive looking camera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Tresch Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Strange, the F65 is the most noisiest camera (fan+shutter) on the 4k market... Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remixr Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 F5 and F55 will also have AES audio input capability, Great report from Jon Film and Digital times can be found here : http://http://www.fdtimes.com/pdfs/articles/sony/FDTimes-Sony-F5-F55-v4.6-150dpi.pdf Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remixr Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Try this link: http://http://fdtimes.com/pdfs/articles/sony/FDTimes-Sony-F5-F55-v4.6-150dpi.pdf Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remixr Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Third is a charm: fdtimes.com/pdfs/articles/sony/FDTimes-Sony-F5-F55-v4.6-150dpi.pdf Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Mills Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 f-65 was actually louder than Epic on a shoot that used both at same time in studio this last summer... Another member on this forum mixed the sound.. I was just a tourist.. even the AC was surprised.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 The Sony F55 now uses an electronic global shutter, which should be completely silent in operation. I would expect they'll eventually figure out a way to incorporate that into the F65 and eliminate the mechanical shutter noise. The real question mark is Arriflex. When will they come out with a 4K competitor for Red? I would be very surprised not to see an announcement at NAB in April, but the real questions will be price, availability, and features. Red is also making many interesting noises about laser projectors and data delivery of 4K movies to theaters on servers. I think some of their ideas are pure Blue Sky (or "Red Sky"), but it's clear they've done a lot of thinking about the big picture of production, post, dailies, and workflow. I just wish they'd devote the same attention and innovation to sound, timecode, and fan noise issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Thomas Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 Had a poke around with these today at a trade show, apparently the fan can be turned off while rolling (not sure how long for). Menus are pretty straightforward but they seem to only display in the viewfinder (unless it's a setting I missed), which could be a bit awkward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCC Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 Working with an F55 over the past week. Sounds pretty good on the return. I agree that the menus are straightforward - there is an external audio/tc button; nothing happens when I push it (was hoping it would let me access audio menus on the exterior faceplate where there are simple buttons for easy access). Had to do everything in the menu, which was a hassle. I expect that audio/tc button will become live on a later firmware version. Attenuation dials go from 0-100. I'm not used to that. Only see two xlr audio inputs, though it has four channels - maybe there's a digital solution? Pictures look good. Audio sounds fine. I think it will become what the varicam was, but for this era of full sensors (great for sports, doc, and eng shooting - and totally worthwhile every other way as well). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCC Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 Am also finding out the F55 and AVID are having some issues playing with eachother - check this out: http://community.avid.com/forums/t/117896.aspx John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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