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POLL - "Rates for Labor & Equipment on EFP Network Gigs"


Sergio Sanmiguel

For a EFP rig with Boom Mic, 4 Wireless Lav's, IFB, Mixer & Transcription, How much you think is Fair?  

35 members have voted

  1. 1. For a EFP rig with Boom Mic, 4 Wireless Lav's, IFB, Mixer & Transcription, How much you think is Fair?

    • $350/day Flat rate
      0
    • $400/day (10 hrs + OT)
      1
    • $450/day (10 hrs + OT)
      3
    • $500/day (10 hrs + OT)
      4
    • more that $500 (10 hrs + OT)
      27
    • I don't do EFP work
      2


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Guest afewmoreyears

Newsflash ---  TODAY -- I'm prepping for a commercial....

Negotiation 201 :

Call comes in... prominent LA production company.. I've done full rate spots for them before - 35mm, Union

500/10 labor, 500 package....

.... calling about my availability on Saturday ... "YES, I'm open - what do you have going on?"

Got a shoot happening - small crew, HVX200, etc etc .... "Great... tell me more"

We've got 450 for you for the day --  IMMEDIATE RESPONSE - " I just can't do that.... these are my normal rates... "

I quoted 500 / 10 and 200 - 250 for gear depending on wireless needed.... after all, its a Saturday...

they say ONE wireless, and a boom... 

Ok, how about 600 for the day ....  I say "fine, for an EIGHT hour day... OT past 8 at time and a half"

(notice - a statement - no ? mark... and that's 50 / hr, my normal rate, and I'd be quite happy to see the return of the 8hr day... )

DEAL.....  I kid you NOT, the whole thing happened in 20 seconds....

Now, did he really have only 450 ?  .... jeez, I guess not.... surprise surprise...

What he DID have is a pressing need to fill the slot and move on....

For what it's worth, I was, as always, professional and polite - and there was no quiver in MY voice .....

Just stick to your guns.... and if he goes away, well good luck buddy, and no - I don't have anyone in my universe that will be able to accomodate that number so no phone numbers from me ... take care, but if you do need me, do call back quick before someone else books me...

Try it some time .....  practice in the mirror if you have to...  ("you talkin' to ME??)

Now go out there and get what you deserve..... and it's NOT 450 / 12 with your 15K investment....

or substantially less than an AC !

Mike Filosa, CAS

Atlanta

Mike,

  On a commercial, that rate is insane.....  $250.00 for gear?  what...  I had a $1000.00 invoice yesterday, with 17 client headsets, xtra TC slate, and no wireless....  This is a normal and fair invoice for that many com teks and an extra slate. DVD ram disc and batteries are also included in this price....

  I don't know how you get 200-250 a day.... Gear,  and 8 hr day....  I have never even heard of that....  I feel a bit bad for those prices... Even with the direct to video deal, you should still be trying to convince them to  back-up to a normal file based deck. This makes sense to production, to you, and to your pay... In turn, your package should be going for AT LEAST 500-600 there in Atlanta.... I don't know.. Maybe prices are that much there for reasons I don't fully understand....

  I see you are in Atlanta, but.....  seems like a horrible deal to me....  glad you got the gig, but the LA PM is probably grinning all the way home....  Those rates are unheard of on a real commercial gig....  way too low....  IA minimum for Y-1 mixer is now at @$675.00 for 10....

As for the 8 hr day,  heck with that.....  10 hr minimum....

On those shows where you are out in 7 hrs.... you will only be paid for 8... thats a bad deal....

  I thought we had problems out west....  Best of luck to you guys Eastbound.....

Keep fighting the good fight.....

AFMY

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Sorry hombre, you got my post all wrong.... 

To clarify - I was prepping a two-day full-rate union commercial, 500+ / 600 eqpt x 2 ....  when the aforementioned call actually came IN .... I could see how that might have been mis-interpreted... 

If it's double system, we START around 500 here ..... best I can tell...

The "negotiation" I referred to was over a small-crew EFP gig, multi-cable plugging into an HVX200 - no double system here...

The shoot is tomorrow, BTW ..... the most notable thing about the negotiation was a 150 increase just for challenging the numbers and asking....  And all taking place in 20 seconds..... 

In these here parts, I try to adhere to 250 for the over-the-shoulder mixer bag with a pair of Lectros and a fishpole and accessories.... I'll take 200 if they know that only one wireless is gonna play... but if that second one comes out -

we add another 50.......  250 is tops here... too many grunts givin' it away.... 

But to sweeten the story..... today, in the middle of my 4 wireless talent HELL, low ceilings, no boom possible, with a character whose job was to blow an airhorn ALL DAY in the confines of our yokel "garage" set ( I couldn't convince the idiots to fake the airhorn and add it in post..... no kidding... all I could get was for them to let me stuff a gaffer's ball in the thing.. ) ... so anyway...

During my brief lunch I get the call about Saturday's shoot, crew call, etc.... "and we need five comteks" ....

What? I say... We never discussed that for this "simple shoot".....  (initial call - we need one boom and one wireless...)

I'm getting an additional 115 for comteks ($20 per) and batteries ($2 per...  And I reminded them that I'm on an eight for this one..

Then I'm getting a day off..... 

If my hard-earned hourly rate stays the same, I'm happy to do an 8hr day... I MISS them ...

The 10 and the now-developing 12 are often just someone's "failure to actually produce!"  Quite often, properly producing something can often only take 8 or less hours.... Right crew, right planning, EXPERIENCE, etc etc.... 

Mike Filosa, CAS & 479

Atlanta

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Very nice! Is that deal now without a kit rental, that I assume you'll recoup after the 8th hour?

The 600 (now 715) equals 400/8 and 200 for kit - Initially one boom, one wireless - BUT now $315 because they added comteks....  hours 9 and 10 at 75 / hr (50 x 1.5) = or.....  550 for 10 if they go there....  so $865 if it goes to 10.

I'd prefer to say bye bye at 8 .....  I've got CDs to buy, Christmas to shop for,

AND I gotta see the Coen Bros - Peter Kurland movie sometime soon......... 

Mike Filosa, CAS

Atlanta

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Guest afewmoreyears

Mike,

  I think another thing to mention at this point , is the notion of "they don't know anything...."  so trying to get an idea of pricing based on a production person telling you how something is to be miked or whether or not a wireless or two will be pulled out..  is fundamentally flawed... they never know whats up...

  Most jobs out here are 10 hr.    with many at 12, but we would be in time and a half for 2...

  I don't think I have worked on a show planned for 8 without having only 1 or 2 shots to do.....  actual Commercials are often 10-14....  being sound, we get out early once and a while...

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This is a good question (generalized) for the whole industry.  When we started in post for ad's we couldn't get any idea what was considered normal.  Even from folks we knew... silence.  Now the thinking I have heard is everyone is paranoid that once people know your rate they will undercut you.  My experience is that people undercut you because they don't know what the rate is.  If I knew exactly what competitors were biding I would bid the same or higher.  If you are the low bid they make your life hell because they assume you NEED the work and they can take advantage.  We had producers (after the mix) say "you know we didn't use as much sound as we planned to", they wanted a discount - didn't get it.  Personally I think we would all be better off with some sort of standard basic rate.  Of course in union gig's that gets closer to a reality.

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No matter what you charge for yourself or your gear someone will always do it cheaper.

I did a TV series in Eastern Europe for a famous LA studio and charged my normal rate for myself and my gear and this was paid without quibble.

The following year they asked me back but wanted me to supply an extra (smaller) set of equipment for a second unit using local labour. The total package should have been about $6000 but they offered $4000 which was lower than the previous year with less gear. I turned them down but needless to say someone else did it.

Malcolm Davies. A.m.p.s. (Production Sound Mixer.)

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My experience is that people undercut you because they don't know what the rate is.  If I knew exactly what competitors were biding I would bid the same or higher. 

I think you hit a nail on the head with that line....  let's hope that this and other newsgroups help us communicate more about the business side of things and the numbers with each other ...

My initial entry here was my feeling that the Poll parameters are too low...  how about 600, 650, 700 - and higher.

Like many others, I don't sling around a 302, a 416, and a couple of 195s..... 

I bring a lot more to the table and expect to be paid for it...

Mike Filosa, CAS

Atlanta

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  • 2 weeks later...

Moral of this story:

It's time to up your rates!

Do it now or you'll regret it for the next few years...

Do it as a New Years resolution for crying out LOUD!

Ok guys repeat with me:

Can't do it for less than $500 /day

Can't do it for less than $500 /day !

Can't do it for less than $500 /day

Can't do it for less than $500 /day

Good!

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  • 3 weeks later...

slightly off topic here.  But is the rate for a sound supervisor on a reality show?  How does it compare to a mixer working on a reality show?  I know that alot of people make up for low labor rates with fatter gear rentals.  However, i understand that market is pretty competitive as well.

thanks,

john gooch. 

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So is there general rate range for a sound supervisor?  If i had to guess the rates would be between $550 -$600 for 10 hours-no gear.  Is that out of line?  I am sure it also depends upon the length of the run.  I completely understand if my question is not answered.  Rates can be touchy, and i do not want to offend. 

john. 

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So is there general rate range for a sound supervisor?  If i had to guess the rates would be between $550 -$600 for 10 hours-no gear.  Is that out of line?  I am sure it also depends upon the length of the run.  I completely understand if my question is not answered.  Rates can be touchy, and i do not want to offend. 

john. 

Gooch,

On top network reality shows (The Apprentice,Survivor etc.( the supervisor gets $750-$800) on Mtv or other cable reality shows, you are in the right range there.

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thanks!  That's where i thought the rates should be.  I've heard anecdotally a wide range of rates but i wanted a real world( very unintentional pun) baseline. 

John.

The poll results are as expected with the majority being in the top rate tier as far as expectations go. A more interesting poll would be "how much do you really work for?"

Eric

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