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unusual situation


filippo toso

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Hi all, friday i should record the audio for a sort of theatre piece, there' will be 17 people on stage, 2 cameras shooting and no microphone could be seen. Very low budget project. I think i'll go with some spot mikes. the gear i have is : SD744, 1 mixer mackie (no direct out!) , 1 mkh 50, 2 octava mk012 with all 3 capsules, 2 samson c01. To have more tracks i could bring a motu 896hd and my mac running PT. With the mac based situation i could have 5 mikes spotted around but with a very difference in sound. I 'm also thinking about making an MS configuration, for example putting mkh50 and a samson (8figure) in front of the stage (no public btw, the room is 30 meters) and spotting around the 2 oktavas. Any tips? Thanks, Filippo

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Hi, and welcome...

" no microphone could be seen. Very low budget project. "

very unrealistic expectations!

(and that is not an unusual situation!)

and I suspect you have little experience

The MS stereo (2 ch) center, and 2 x Octava hypers towards the sides (2 ch) into the 4 tracks of the 744. Hang all the mics at the proscenium bottom edge peeking out over the stage, or lower, if possible down to about 7' above the stage, hanging tilted down at bit towards the area upstage.... remix later.

Edited by studiomprd
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That's all good, but you might want to add a person with a shotgun in the front row center--on its own track. I've found that that plus all those other mics can make for an ok mix. This kind of job has been discussed a lot here--do a search? The main issue, I have found, is managing expectations. IE: the cameras can zoom in to a close up, your mics, unless you wire everyone, cannot.

philp

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Hi, and welcome...

" no microphone could be seen. Very low budget project. "

very unrealistic expectations!

(and that is not an unusual situation!)

and I suspect you have little experience

The MS stereo (2 ch) center, and 2 x Octava hypers towards the sides (2 ch) into the 4 tracks of the 744. Hang all the mics at the proscenium bottom edge peeking out over the stage, or lower, if possible down to about 7' above the stage, hanging tilted down at bit towards the area upstage.... remix later.

Very good advice from a very not good advice giver.

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I think 17 speaking roles on stage will be very problematic, and the sound quality will be (as always) very room-dependent. My suggestion would be, ask if the cast would be willing to do a rehearsal session without an audience, and just stand by floor-stand microphones without moving and read the entire play without movement. At least then, you'll have the equivalent of wild lines on 3 or 4 microphones, and you could "theoretically" plug those in to the live production if you need them. If the object is to wind up with a video copy of the performance, it might actually be best to shoot this before or after the live stage event so the cameras and mics can be optimized for best coverage -- even breaking it down scene by scene to do multiple takes, almost like a TV show.

Realistically, the mic placement will be less-than-optimum during the live show due to the actors' changing positions and presence issues, but it'll never be great. 17 wireless mics would take lots of gear, money, experience, rehearsals, and skill to pull off, and yet there are many Broadway and touring shows that routinely do far more speaking parts every night.

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thanks all for reply. the news is there is not serious audio post production in budget so i think is better avoid ms configuration, it could not be decoded. so i will boom on the front e spot 2 oktavas in the main places (it's not a real stage but a room) . they know the result will not be satisfactory and it's just a part of a 30 days shooting, anyway i'll try to do my best

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It should be for television so it would enough a mono file. it's part of a sort of reality they are trying to sell to television. they are filming an actor's school for 30 days and this "unusual situation" is just a little piece they perform for 2 hours. sry for my bad english, i can't explain very well

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Your English is fine--we understand your situation. It sounds like you'll have a lot of opportunities to perfect your setup--the first couple of sessions will be tough but you'll find out what works and be able to tell the actors what you can record and what you can't. The Senator's basic setup is a great place to start, add other mics as you need once you see how the show actually goes. Make sure that the producers see/hear some playback after the first shows so they know what they are getting--that might get you some more resources.

philp

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they are filming an actor's school

Tell them to speak up: project like a theater actor!

I would try to watch a rehearsal of the staging well before the day of shooting. Plot out the areas that need to be covered and hang as many mics as possible. If you can't watch a rehearsal and learn the play yourself (much like the "tech-ing" step in live theater), you will be better served to use minimal mics if youll be forced to leave many mics open due to not knowing the action. If you can plan according to the action of the play, I'd hang as many mics as possible and mix the action.

The less of the required gear you have access to and the less time you're allowed to prepare, the more of a slop job it will be. I wouldn't feel bad about that at all - do the best you can. It might be fun working it out with theater actors and theater lighting technicians.

Be aware, if they are using theatrical lights, some are incredibly noisy.

Josh

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I've had PZMs work ok in this situation too (or cardioids in mic-mouses). It's just that you'd have to put them at the lip, and they don't have a lot of reach. I used them mostly in situations where we A: could not use wires, and B: no flown mics were permitted. Senator's rig kind of treats the play like it was a concert, and if the hall is good and the lighting isn't too noisy then that might be the best cheapest most flexible way to go. My guess is that the OP will do a few sessions of this and then the best solution will become obvious, and he'll make modifications to suit. Seeing rehearsals and having meetings re the needs of each particular show would be a very good idea.

philp

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  • 2 weeks later...

I recently had to record audio for a play that involved at least 30 people. The first time I did this we wired everyone (the location supplied the lavs) and we used some plant mics, and one person sitting front center with an mkh8070 in a pistol grip. All of this was running into a 24 channel board and direct outs into a hard disk recorder. This made for way too many tracks and inconsistent sound. This last time we hung mics, used plant mics, and had two people in front with mkh8070 mics. the coverage was pretty good and sounded more consistent, and we had a total of 12 tracks of audio that time. I think that it made for a more fluid mix. But in both of these scenarios we had a "better than low" budget to work with.

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It should be for television so it would enough a mono file. it's part of a sort of reality they are trying to sell to television. they are filming an actor's school for 30 days and this "unusual situation" is just a little piece they perform for 2 hours. sry for my bad english, i can't explain very well

You have kind of answered your own question... Little to no post sound... and you want a mono file...

I would get somehow a different SINGLE mic, CMIT5 for example.. and let it rip with it either overhead in the front of stage or from the forward seating position and play it from a crowds perspective.. If the actors are projecting like they should be, I like this approach.. forget all the multiple mics... multiple mics mixed mono from different perspectives will only sound funky... I think in your case (one) proper mic, properly placed will fit the bill... and suit your purpose for this part of the project.. Sometimes less is more... you may be surprised how good it sounds...

Your a bit boxed into a corner... if you were to use all the mics, and get them recorded, 3 or more, and most likely can not be properly mixed down in post, whats the point of going that route... You have had some excellent advice... but you may not be able to go that route.. Make it sound REAL to go with the reality... The close ups may be "interesting", but it is what it is... What would it sound like front of house...? in the crowd....? probably like the one mic... but, viewed on TV is not really "in the crowd"... thus the paradox...

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