49 replies to this topic

[Rob Stalder]

Rastorder is attempting to design and supply covers for our carts.

We had a meeting with a motor trimmer today and a prototype is in the wings.

We will start with the Foldup cart and depending on how it goes, we will cover the other carts.

 

I need a bit of help here.

I would like to keep it simple.

I would like to know whether it should come as one unit or have a separate section for the top lift off half shelf.

I would like to know what access is required.

 

If you own a Rastorder Foldup cart - think you might own one one day - or just want to give us your 2 cents worth.

Could you please help with pictures and/or comments.

Any info gained here might relate to other carts.

 

Rob Stalder

Attached Files

•  2010 foldups008.JPG   38.55K   32 downloads
•  2010 foldups009.JPG   39.43K   35 downloads

[soundslikejustin]

Not that I have a fold-up (or other Rastorder cart), but I think that Fred's cover on your own page is a good starting point. However, for the folding cart I don't think it'd be necessary to have a split - just one piece.

 

Access would be obviously to the front, perhaps in two sections (one roll-up up top and one zip below), and one or two tie-up panels (think tent flaps) at the back. I would like to see pop-studs to hold it in place, especially at the top where the material will be less "solid" due to the wide access area.

 

My 2 cents.

[syncsound]

I happen to be a fan of hook-and-loop access panels, and some modularity. Typically I need a cover for company moves where the cart get loaded into an open stakebed truck here in sunny Portland, Oregon. Since it never rains perfectly vertically, some side and rear cover while I'm mixing under a popup would be useful.

 

I guess I would need something that offers unfettered access to the front of the cart, while still protecting the top, rear and sides. Also, if it could have a little wiggle room for reconfiguring the cart? I occasionally will move things around if I think a new config will be cleaner for operation.

[Jeff Wexler]

I have had several covers for my carts through the years, the first one made by a Sailmaker in Port Townsend, Washington on "An Officer and a Gentleman." They came out to the set and made some measurements and based on what I said I needed for access they came back in 2 weeks with a beautiful and functional cover. It was all one piece (but constructed from several panels) and attached to the cart frame with Velcro. The entire front, top to bottom, was one panel that could roll up (from the bottom to the top) exposing as much of the equipment on the shelves as needed. When all the way up it could be rolled out and suspended over my head like an awning. I had flaps on the side panels that could open to expose cables and also to get at connections on the sides if I had to repatch anything. Another opening panel at the back which would expose the patchbay. I don't have pictures of that cover but a similar one was made for one of my older carts by Mike Anderson when we were on "City Slickers II" in Moab, Utah.

 

I think for the RastOrder carts, a simple cover of some sort is what Rob should make. Trying to figure out how to do access panels for the various ways in which people might be configuring their carts might be difficult. I always had the advantage of being able to customize the cover for the specific cart and equipment, knowing that the equipment wasn't going to change (hey, this was the 1980's) and I could always make changes to the cover myself if I needed to.

 

 Moab, Utah - Cart with cover.jpg   29.8K   50 downloads

 

[justanross]

I'm loving all the suggestions you are getting so far Rob. Are you considering doing them for your other carts as well? I'm really liking the VK. If I do set that up as my main cart I'd make the fold up as my follow cart. And covers for both would be awesome!

[MT Groove]

I would be very interested in seeing a cover the the Foldup cart! Since I don't use the top lift off half shelf anyway, maybe a single unit may be just fine. It would be nice to have front access and some side access using velcro, much like Petrol Bags. The rear of the cover should have some access to allow antenna mast, cables to exit the cart cover.



Not really a good pic but this is how I have my Foldup Cart set up. Not shown in pic is the sharkfins. Everyone have their carts set up very differently. The cover may need to be flexible to accommodate the different cart setups.



Can't wait to see some prototypes of the cover!!

BTW, I may be due for an SU cart soon though.

[aristotle_kumpis]

Having owned a fold up cart for over a month now, I would like to see a cover that that fits up to the top shelf. And another small section that can be added on for the lift up shelf. Maybe it can have snap buttons all around the edges of both sections. That way, someone can easily snap on the top section for the lift up shelf if needed. So it could be two parts: One for the main cart, and another for the lift up shelf. Also, it would be great if the cover had pockets on the sides to hold extra stuff.

[old school]

Jeff, do you remember the day they delivered the cover? Not 10 minutes after we put it on a hose broke on the rain tower rig and sprayed everything around us but the cart was safe. Talk about timing....

CrewC

[Philip Perkins]

For a Wexler-Evje style vertical cart (like the RastOrders) I very much vote for Jeff's design--separate flaps for the 4 sides that can roll up individually.  If the cart is really going to be exposed the rain or even mist+fog, being able to get at one side of the cart's innards without having expose the other sides is very appealing.  But to keep the thing tidy (and out of the wheels) it would have to be a pretty good fit.  I don't think a one-size fits all deal wold work out very well.  

 

philp

[tullysound]

hello to all 

i am new to this group

i would like to suggest that the  cover will  be small and compact  when not in use . something like a north face coat  where the pocket becomes a pouch.after all we do not have so many rainy days here ... so the cover will not be used very often. 

[Rob Stalder]

Thank you - keep the comments coming - the more i understand your individual needs the more of a consensus i can come to.

Quote from above  "We will start with the Foldup cart and depending on how it goes, we will cover the other carts."

 

The foldup cart is what it is a simple foldup cart - to this end some of your comments may well be attrbuted to our bigger carts and "

Key words:

Wriggle room - we can take that into account.

Access panels - probably not at side - but if so where and why... ??

probably at rear????where abouts & how big - velcoed. ? One in middle for antenna/boom cables ??

Front access - maybe opening above 2nd extended shelf & maybe separate open below it.

Top half shelf...

Re comments from Aristotle & Mt  - have thought about this - Maybe up to and over top half shelf - with possability of leaving it off.

Then as you suggest a separate section to fit on top - to hold what???

I have uploaded the word flexible to my brain - dont know if it will do any good...

Pockets on side - are a bit swish arn't they - below is a pic of Pascal's foldup cart cover - he is in France - its very well done and looks flexible.

Maybe something like that could have say an added monitor or in his case radios attached on the outside with a separate cover.

It also has pockets.

 

Bare in mind - there could be a basic cover with extras.

RS

 

Attached Files

•  Pascal & Foldup cart.jpg   63.34K   31 downloads

[rich]

i like what Kortwich did with their cart cover.

http://www.filmtontechnik.de/479.html

 

i was trying to work out what i wanted to cover my cart and was going to get round to asking KT systems about making a cover for mine. once i'd worked out what was best.

but i was thinking along the lines of a one piece part that goes around the 3 sides leaving the front clear that attaches with either velcro or poppers or a combination of both. or small twist lock things, if they can be added whilst still allowing the cart to fold properly.

though velcroed flaps on the side and back to allow access to the mixer shelf and the shelf above would be good to allow access to connections and cards etc. and also the option for cut outs at the back for the boom holders.

and maybe a separate piece that would zip to the main cover to cover the front for transport / lunch / english summer time.

i have no opinion on the removable top shelf though as i dont use it in my current configuration. though assume that the cover i am loosely imagining would only go to the edge of it and not have space to cover anything on top of that shelf.

[Bash]

Hi Rob,

 

and what a good idea to ask around the users..... I have a little experience with cart covers - I have had two made for my big Chinhda cart (the 'team' managed to lose the first one - not our best day!!).

 

Front access is obvious, and JW's idea regarding using the flap as a head cover can work well, so that pretty much dictates a vertical zip on either side of the front panel.

 

Rear access is also jolly useful, so you may well consider two vertical zips on the rear corners, so this now, by default, wins you access to the side flaps by opening only two zips.

 

You'll have to either design two covers, one for top shelf users, and another for those that do not use the top shelf, or take a pragmatic view about making only one, that accommodates the top shelf users, but will also work for those that dont. Also, you'll need to take a view as to how much stuff the top shelf users pile onto said top shelf, so you need to accommodate an amount of bulk being on the top shelf, with the cover going over the top of that gear.

 

Be aware of stuff that sticks out at the sides, 4 or 5 20m cables hanging out the side on a hook take up a lot of space, and the cover may want to accommodate that.

 

Also, be aware of vertical sticky up things, like boom poles, aerial masts, etc....I had to send my big cart cover back to have a bunch of velcro flaps fitted, to accommodate all the sticky up things!!

 

I have found a wide horizontal flap on the back, near the handle, is a good thing for when moving, and also for access to patch panel or back of machines.You could consider a flap that integrates within the handle, this would be a good 'anchor point' for the whole cover.

 

Think about the hem line of the skirt, too high and gear gets wet in sideways rain, too low and it rubs on the wheels and gets dirty or trashed.

 

The cloth that I used I bought from eBay and is called 'Vinyl Cloth'. It comes in various thicknesses. Thicker is better. If the sewer is not experienced with this material then warn them that it can tend to 'tear' in places like the end of a slit or cut, so, for instance, the ends of the side slits on a flap, the point where the 'hinge' would meet the start of the cut for the sides, can want to tear. These points need some 'fortification' or extra strengthening.

 

Velcro is a good thing generally!!

 

I used a local company, out of Elstree Studios near London, who generally make green screens and drapes. They had the industrial sewing machines that make easy work of the cloth. They were 'up for it' and I paid them in wine. Karl did a brilliant job, and I would definitely go back there again.

 

I'll be really interested to see what you come up with Rob - feel free to share drawings before you commit - I am sure that you will get great ideas from here!!!

 

Kindest regards, and I hope it goes well,

 

Simon B

[Jeff Wexler]

Jeff, do you remember the day they delivered the cover? Not 10 minutes after we put it on a hose broke on the rain tower rig and sprayed everything around us but the cart was safe. Talk about timing....

CrewC

 

Of course! I thought about mentioning that, including the fact that we had rain almost every day except that day where we had to make rain for the scene. What history! Probably not as interesting to everyone else as it is for you and me.

[Rob Stalder]

Sorry about my panicky last post.

I actually had to go and put my sound recording hat on again - took a bit to find it.

BUT I am getting it - thank you all for the input.

I have received some emails as well. The detail of preferences & setup styles is what i was looking for (eg Bash).

I am coming to conclusions as to overall design, access, workability, simpleness and attachments.

Please anyone else who is thinking of commenting - do so.

I will probably mull over this for a week and then detail a plan before the prototype.

Rob Stalder.

[Rob Stalder]

" What history! Probably not as interesting to everyone else as it is for you and me."

 

 

I dont know - "Officer And A Gentleman" is still one of my all time favourite films - I saw it twice - maybe its my sentimental nature...

I was a Television Audio Director at the time, never occurred to me I would ever work in the field.

RS

[old school]

"Officer" was different from most of the films I worked on. The cast and many of the crew were young and just hitting the big leagues and it was 1981, a time of great change in the USA. The 70's were over and the Reagan years were just getting underway. We were isolated for 3 months in the Great Northwest on the Straights of Juan de Fuca in the scenic small town of Port Townsend.  We worked 6 day weeks and some of us partied 7 night weeks. We worked hard on our craft but released after work with the same enthusiasm. The material was well written and Taylor Hackford did a fine directing job and we all making the same movie. Not as common as you might think. Also we all liked one another for the most part. The film turned out well and holds up to this day I think. I'm sure it means more to those of us who worked on it but I bet it would make a hell of an interesting read if someone could capture all that went into the making of the movie by that cast of characters on both sides of the camera. I certainly value the experience and will never forget being on our sound crew w Jeff n Don. Someday I will post some pix.;~)

CrewC

[Rob Stalder]

"I bet it would make a hell of an interesting read if someone could capture all that went into the making of the movie by that cast of characters on both sides of the camera."

 

WELL...

[Rob Stalder]

Sammy.

Looking at your pic I see you have a bendy thing stuck in one of the uprights - could you do without that - maybe attach it to upright (adjacent) with a manfrotto clamp if I had a flap ether side for that purpose. I have also seen on other pics of yours where you have had a pole up the back withantennas on it.

Also how much higher (if at all) does the mixer bag (in that position) go above those 2 uprights.

Rob

[Rob Stalder]

Aristotle.

What you say is already going around in my head.

Its a possible option in some way at this point.

I would like to see how you set up your cart, particularely in the top area.

Rob

[Cloud Wang]

Kortwich version looks neat !

[Rob Stalder]

Cloud - does your mixer bag with these radios and in this position extend higher than the rear uprights of the foldup cart (without the half top shelf on.

Would it fit under the top half shelf.

Rob

Attached Files

•  Cloud cart hat...resized.jpg   34.19K   37 downloads

[Rob Stalder]

Access flaps Looking to have full width access flap accross rear about leval with2nd shelf down (where you might put the mixer in a more formal situation) - maybe one where handle is. Either of these would allow cables out/in and hooks attached inside to exit.

 

Access flaps on side, I am having difficulty with. It appears to me that you would only need side access in (again) a more formal situation.

Surely there is enough room (WIDTH) on the foldup cart shelves to put your hand in to the side areas from the front - or enough room to turn equipment for side access.

 

Part of our aim is to keep costs down, so every little inovation drives costs up. Could end up with some ideas being offered as options.

I Would appreciate comments on side flaps.

Rob S

[MT Groove]

Sammy.
Looking at your pic I see you have a bendy thing stuck in one of the uprights - could you do without that - maybe attach it to upright (adjacent) with a manfrotto clamp if I had a flap ether side for that purpose. I have also seen on other pics of yours where you have had a pole up the back withantennas on it.
Also how much higher (if at all) does the mixer bag (in that position) go above those 2 uprights.
Rob

Rob,

I can certainly do without that gooseneck used to hold the dipole. I can reposition that setup.

The antenna mast with 2 sharkfins is on this setup as well. They're just not visible in this pic. I mount it on one of the boom pole holders.

Depending on how much I angle the bag, it sits approx 2-3 inches above the uprights.


Sammy Huen

[Rob Stalder]

The most obvious conclusion I have come to is that a lot of people place their mixer bag on the top shelf of the FU cart. Either upright, laying down, or somewhere in between. They often dont use the removeable top half shelf.

This means I look at having some sort of expandable main top section,  or I arbitarily set the overall maximum height of the cover.

I am sitting here looking at my (old) mixer bag (without radio mic arials) sitting on the top full shelf of the FU cart. Its height is almost leval with the top of the uprights - which is almost identical to the height of the top half shelf when it is on.

 

I would like some upright mixer bag height figures please - rather than make an arbitary decision, in the case that I adopt a fixed height.

Cost wise - I suspect that once we have a product cover any alteration or addition request will probably be able to be accomodated, but will cost extra.

RS

[Rob Stalder]

Below are 2 setups from Ludovic - He is working with the top half shelf on.

Note he has a generic super clamp/magic arm to hold the monitor and clips to hold the ipad.

Both of these attach to the front of the top half shelf.

This will be a bit difficult to accomodate. I will think of some alternatives for mounting.

generic clamp is here (courtesy of Ludovic)

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item19d7c5fa6b

 

Rob

Attached Files

•  0204 resized.jpg   37.96K   40 downloads
•  8465 resized.jpg   39.53K   46 downloads

[Rob Stalder]

Just playing around with my mixer bag & a foldup cart and some antenna options I may be able to accomodate.

Will be meeting with cover maker on Monday for a final discussion before the FU prototype.

See pics below.

Pic 1shows front clip with bendy arm attached to front shelf - bit hard to cover that. Also shows Manfrotto Super clamp on side of top shelf. We may be able to make a flap for this or just have holes with the SC sitting outside the cover. You would have to drill your holes to match I think.

Pic 2 shows SC screwed through shelf with 2 short M5 metric screws directly into SC.

Pic 3 shows the weld next to the SC. This shelf side is very flexible & may need some rear re-enforcing.

With flexing it could crack this weld. You would have to keep an eye on it.

Pic 4 shows SC screwed onto rear flat bar. Note round bar extends up through handle. We could accomodate this maybe with a flap or just holes. Round bar is a piece I had lying around - 20mm/5/8" with 1.5mm wall thickness - goes straight into SC stud socket.

Pic 5 shows clip with bendy arm on rear upright - could have a wrap around flap here either side.

Pic 6 shows SC on front corner of extended shelf sticking out of side - cover could go past this.

Pic 7 shows SC on rear upright - a magic arm could be attached to this with a stud attachment to a bendy arm. Also there are 2 straight through holes in the SC to allow for vertical mounting. But you would have to use bolts through the uprights. Again this position could be accomodated with an opening/flap. Much like the SC opening on Pascals cart.

Pic 8shows the bottom of the SC and its various holes.

Of course there are 2 boom pole mounts on the rear - one of these could be used as an antenna

mount.

Rob

 

Attached Files

•  2_inside side SC.jpg   7.54K   22 downloads
•  1_front clip on_side SC.jpg   12.15K   21 downloads
•  6_SC on front shelf corner.jpg   8.39K   18 downloads
•  7_SC on rear upright.jpg   14.96K   17 downloads
•  8_bottom of SC.jpg   7.49K   17 downloads
•  3_weld on shelf.jpg   8.34K   17 downloads
•  4_SC on rear bar.jpg   12.12K   19 downloads
•  5_clip on rear upright.jpg   11.27K   22 downloads

[Rob Stalder]

Thank you all for the interest and input you have shown in this project.

Had meeting with motor trimmer this morning and he is off to start the prototype.

It will take a bit - when its finished I will post pictures.

 

Prototype will aim to include;

sides and rear - square up to & including height of top half shelf - in a vinyl type material. Similar to truck sides.

Front - all framing in the vinyl.

              under extended shelf - , clear plastic with side zips.

             mixer area above extended shelf - clear plastic panel, complete tear off - hook & loop.

             bag/recorder leval above top full shelf - clear plastic panel, complete tear off - hook & loop.

Top - vinyl possibly hinged at rear & with sides to allow for variable height.

          with clear plastic panel, complete tear off - hook & loop.

Access - Rear - small flap at handle, small flap at top shelf  bar to allow for attachment of super clamp and/or put on hook.

                          also full width flap at mixer shelf.

Access sides - opening (or flap) at top of rear uprights for attachment of super clamp. experiment with slit access to hang cable hooks.

 

Rob Stalder

Rastorder P/L

[Cloud Wang]

Cloud - does your mixer bag with these radios and in this position extend higher than the rear uprights of the foldup cart (without the half top shelf on.

Would it fit under the top half shelf.

Rob

hi Rob

 

sorry just saw your message,yes that petrol bag can fit when the half top shelf ON, JUST FIT IN there.

 

best

 

Cloud 

[Rob Stalder]

By the way - Foldup carts back in stock.

RS

[Rob Stalder]

23rd March 2013.

ARE WE THERE YET?

Nearly.

RS

[rich]

show us some pictures Rob. before i order one.

 

thanks

[Midnitesnd]

Any pics yet??

[Rob Stalder]

Prototype is to be delivered to me soon - I will put it on a cart and post lots of pics. May also be able to price it at that stage_no promisses.

RS

[Brian Maier]

Don't want to side track this discussion, but where did you get the triangle insert thing for the mafer clamp?  Or did you make it out of something?

[greg sextro]

it comes with the clamp

[Brian Maier]

it comes with the clamp

 

Neither my Manfrotto or MSE mafer came with one, I feel a bit cheated...

[greg sextro]

you were cheated.  Both mine came with them

[Rob Stalder]

Go here http://www.manfrotto...mp-without-stud

Plastic insert can be had as a spare part - 035WDG - click on spare parts & download pdf.

[Rob Stalder]

Cover prototype - stage 1.

I thought we would be further along at this stage, however the cover maker has had a health issue.

Looks a bit like a BBQ cover - cute though.

RS

Attached Files

•  resized cover Stage one _09.JPG   45.8K   17 downloads
•  resized cover Stage one _08.JPG   35.39K   14 downloads
•  resized cover Stage one _11.JPG   35.08K   13 downloads
•  Hoodie off.jpg   25.28K   11 downloads
•  Hoodie on.jpg   23.2K   11 downloads

[Rob Stalder]

OK some thinking out aloud here.

Top pics, there is a clear panel on top for looking down on mix, there is a blank panel below - this will be clear.

There is a clear panel for extended shelf. Basically the 3 clear panels will all connect so they can be removed or each opened up for access.

Front bottom panel has zips at side - can be rolled up - works well.

Cover is not that difficult to get on/off.

Few access points to go as mentioned before.

Will now look to have access panel either side of top shelf for side mixer access. It is a bit awkward to get to from front.

Hoodie was a joint idea. When i first saw it i thought it wouldn't work. Now i think it will.

Possibly with deeper sides and detach from rear. But it should address a very high mixer bag with its flexability and go out over sides.

Or not used at all.

Cover is at moment sitting leval with (and on) top half shelf. Cover will be vertically locked of elsewhere and strengthened with piping up & over front side corners - so it can support itself if top half shelf is not used.

 

Material is vinal, medium thickness.

Colour - bear in mind i dont intend to buy a stack of different colour rolls. This light grey will be main colour as i think it blends in well with the great outdoors and will give good sun protection as well.

2nd colour option may be a dark charcoal grey - to be determined.

For those wanting particular colour - yes - extra $ - pay in advance - wait for it to be made.

Cost - expect between AUD $350 - $400.

Freight expect between AUD $50 - $100

If you buy a cover with a cart, cover will fit in cart box.

RS

[soundslikejustin]

Rob, it does look like a BBQ cover! People are going to be standing around it in the morning and trying to grab breakfast out of the bottom Seriously though, I think once the top three sections are made clear (but still individual pieces - is that what you mean??), it will be great. 

My only questions would be:

1. Is it possible to get it made out of different material - think tent material?

2. Is there a possibility of it being able to be two pieces as an option (top and bottom sections)?

 

Good work!

[Rob Stalder]

soundslikejustin, on 12 Apr 2013 - 08:49, said:
Seriously though, I think once the top three sections are made clear (but still individual pieces - is that what you mean??),
Yes
Is it possible to get it made out of different material - think tent material?
See post below.
Is there a possibility of it being able to be two pieces as an option (top and bottom sections)?
Its a single piece cart - maybe on our 2 module carts.

Good work!
Thank you

[rich]

what does the vinyl do when it gets cold? and the clear section.

i assume that it gets stiffer like my kt systems bag clear cover does.

 

and is there any provision for boom pole holders? as i use both on my cart.

[Rob Stalder]

what does the vinyl do when it gets cold? and the clear section.

i assume that it gets stiffer like my kt systems bag clear cover does.

I'll put some in the fridge

and is there any provision for boom pole holders? as i use both on my cart.

Yep - there will either be slits or flaps where the normal attachment points are on the foldup cart.

Just hasn't happened on this stage 1  so far.

RS

[rich]

Thanks Rob. Look forward to when they hit production.

[David Waelder]

That looks to be a useful cover, Rob. We had some covers made for the Chinhda carts by a local auto upholstery shop using very similar materials and they have held up well over the years. (At least, clients aren't complaining or returning them.)

 

We incorporated one feature you might consider - we had a zipper at each corner. That permits rolling up any side to provide access with the cover in place. We wouldn't want clients to use the cart in heavy rain with only the cover as protection but it can be useful in light rain to have a cover and be able to work with it in place.

 

We also had grommets fitted in the skirt so the cover could be secured and also to provide a way to tie the skirts together if a zipper should happen to jam.

 

I've attached some pictures to illustrate.

 

David

 

Attached Files

•  CartCover1Sml.jpg   58.01K   5 downloads
•  CartCover2Sml.jpg   59.81K   5 downloads
•  CartCoverDetailSml.jpg   49.26K   5 downloads

[Rob Stalder]

Thank you David for sharing that.

Rob

[Rob Stalder]

Just addressing in more detail the questions of Justin & Rich.

The vinyl we are using is not like the old vinyl that had a material backing.

It is used on most truck sides these days, so is readily available and priced well. 

The vinyl we are using is rated at 600 grams per square metre - truck sidings are 900 grams per square metre.

The clear is 0.5mm thick.

The vinyl feels about the same or thinner than the clear - it is certainly more flexible.

There is however an inherrant stiffness in this material which lends itself to use as a cart cover.

Personally its the best material I have come across.

 

We have looked at material such as that used in mixer bags. There are a number of issues for us.

It costs more to buy. It frays when cut and so needs to have nearly all the edges bound , which is extra work, which will cost more.

It is very flimsey, so will need in some areas to be double layered with support in between, much like in mixer bags. This will mean more work and cost more.

 

The vinyl we are using has an operational temperature range of between -30  and +70 degrees celsius.

I put some of the clear in the freezer overnight, it went a bit stiff, was hard to bend etc. However the clear will only be used in flat panels.

I put some vinyl (600 & 900) in the freezer overnight and was surprised to find it was still easily folded.

 

I had a meeting with the motor trimmer today and the 2nd prototype is under way.

Rob Stalder

[rich]

sounding good Rob.