studiomprd Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 " I'm caught between the CMiT5u and the CS-3e. " once again: frequently discussed (Even Sergio noted that!), personal and subjective. and there are other options, too... the CS-3e is a longer mic in short package, (also the DPA 4017), while the CMIT is a short mic wuth the SuperCMIT version with an extra element and DSP.... I can imagine KL being rough to get loaners, but ask the distributors for their assistance, and then show them your appreciation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 Have long loved my CS-1's Did not perceive when compared with a CS-2 And yes CS-1 has no rear lobe so amazing back to front rejection mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonG Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 I went into Coffey Sound the other day to do a side by side comparison, and although there is only so much you can learn about mics in a busy office, I came to some personal conclusions. First of all, I am in the market for a new mic, after all Ive been using my 416s for years, and recently got an mkh50, and am really liking it as an indoor mic. My main reason for wanting a new mic is to move up in quality, but also to meet certain demands I come across on set a lot: I see more and more productions running two or more cams in order to "save time" by getting the wide and the tight shots at the same time. It is a sad and pathetic attempt at saving time, because it rarely ever does, and of course cuts down on the amount of takes and perspectives you get for sound, as we all know, but try explaining that sort of logic to a producer... Anyways, because this is more and more the case, I need a mic with better reach, but a long shotgun is a bit overkill, and I need a good outdoor mic. I have read many peoples testimonies about these two mics, and both are very compelling arguments. This is what I found with my side by side analysis: The cmit5u seems to have a very smooth and soft sound, with a very good off axis rejections, and smooth roll off (when transitioning form on-to-off axis), but the reach is average for a shotgun mic. However as the subject gets further away the quality of the sound is very forgiving. I think it would make an all around good mic for interiors and some exterior work. The cs3e seems to have a longer throw, but the off axis rejection isnt quite as good as the cmit. Going from on-to-off axis with the mic is pretty severe since it has such a strong reach the subject goes from very present to not at all very quickly. I dont see this being a great mic for indoor use, but a very good mic for outdoors, and when you need to get good sound on doing a wide and a tight at the same time (as long as the interior isnt very reflective or has been acoustically treated). In any case, I think that they are very different mics for very different purposes. This however is more my opinion than anything. I think I will rent them and try them out in the field in different locations to get a better idea. I also took a look at the super cmit, and was blown away by how quiet it is! In all accounts it is very much the same mic as the cmit but it was a little different, and the switchable options are very useful. Im not sure if I could ever justify spending that kind of money on the mic, but I was very impressed and would love to have one in my collection! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomboom Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Will you try the CS-1 Mike's talking about ? It's not the first time he mentions it (he relly seems to love this mic) and it drew me to go on the Sanken website and have a look at the polar patterns of both CS3e and CS1. Reading your comments, it seems it could work for you on exteriors very well and be a little more forgiving when off-axis... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Orusa Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 The rear lobe being what it is on the CMIT, it is rarely a problem. The sound from the rear of the mic must be strong and distinct to bring attention to itself. When the rear of the mic is pointing at the sky or a ceiling there usually isn't a concern. I owned the CMIT for a number of years before becoming aware of the rear lobe. And while the 416 polar pattern may show a rear lobe like most interference tube mics it is not as noticeable as the CMIT, IMO. Mark O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulluysavage Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Thought this was a good place to post results of a demo I did today with the CS-3e. Subject had a leather shirt on with no buttons or holes on the front, all the way up to her neck - death for hidden lavs. We we shooting doc verite in a basement with a low ceiling. I boomed from below, and it sounded *great* all the way down by her knees. Couldn't believe it - backed it off almost to the floor, and it was only then that it didn't sound like a close lav. Up by the knees - like a lav. Later, Boomed kids playing from below outside from 5 feet away, behind the camera, with an air conditioner chugging away on the second floor above them. Again got sound more like I would expect from a lav. Cameraman listened and couldn't believe it. Did some other verite stuff during the day with normal, overhead booming, and I could notice how directional it was. But it really seemed to shine when I was booming from below, and the DP needed a wide-shot - it was doing things I haven't been able to do with other short shotguns. I'm going to try it out over the next three days in a large photo studio - the big, bouncy type. I will report back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Tuzo Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Just my opinion here: -It's odd to me that you you are comparing this mic to a lav favorably. I could bet that if I had an open mic that sounded lav-y, I would never, ever reach for it. -Why boom from below when there is an AC unit right above your subject? -Where do you compare it to a cmit, as you suggest in your title? Don't mean to come off as rude, I'm just a bit confused as to your perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulluysavage Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 One of the most important aspects of miking is getting good proximity, and what I mean is that the CS-3e sounded, when booming below at a distance of 4 -5 feet, more like I expect a mic that is 1 foot from the subject's mouth to sound. I boomed at a right angle to the AC unit from below, and the CS-3e did a good job of canceling the off-axis AC sound. It was a wide shot in direct sun with sun from behind. I did not title this thread. I placed these demo results here because this thread has been helpful to me in evaluating short shotguns, and it looked like the most relevant thread, even though I'm not making a direct comparison to the Schoeps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Some people slag CS3e for indoors. I find the same traits that makes it work well on noisy exteriors make it work well on tough interiors as well. philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomboom Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Some people slag CS3e for indoors. I find the same traits that makes it work well on noisy exteriors make it work well on tough interiors as well. philp +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afewmoreyears Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 I use the CS3e indoors all the time.... I think it works great both indoors and outdoors.... I also have the CMIT5u... also sounds great.... I use them both as I see fit... just buy both and be done with it... add a 416, a MKH 50 and a few CMC6/41s and your ready to go... LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Tuzo Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 I did not title this thread. I placed these demo results here because this thread has been helpful to me in evaluating short shotguns, and it looked like the most relevant thread, even though I'm not making a direct comparison to the Schoeps. You're absolutely right, and I see that now. There must have been a formatting issue with this thread last night, as yours was the only post that showed (and thus, the lack of context left me scratching my head). My apologies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resonate Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 I have worked with both cmit5 (once) and sanken cs3 (10 day shoot). I would say, that the sanken cs3 is a special mic indeed. I second the thoughts about booming from underneath giving better than expected results. It has a really useful, 'reach' as we call it here, meaning you could get a really close up sounding dialogue booming from underneath at knees height. amazing, really. and all indoors. As for schoeps mic, it sounds very silky and detailed, reach is similar to Neumann kmr81, which i own and use regularly. Soundwise, schoeps is way smoother, but after 10 days of working with cs3, I would not say it sounds bad, maybe a bit "sharper" than both neumann or schoeps shotguns, but crisp and much better than 416 for indoor shots. I would definitely buy/rent cs3/cs3e if i was expecting lots of wide shots/acoustically difficult interiors/exteriors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prahlad Strickland Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 The rear lobe being what it is on the CMIT, it is rarely a problem. The sound from the rear of the mic must be strong and distinct to bring attention to itself. When the rear of the mic is pointing at the sky or a ceiling there usually isn't a concern. I owned the CMIT for a number of years before becoming aware of the rear lobe. And while the 416 polar pattern may show a rear lobe like most interference tube mics it is not as noticeable as the CMIT, IMO. Mark O. This is an old post, but hoping you can chime in again. The 416's rear lobe is horrible shooting inside. if the room has a lot of reflections, it's a beast. Surprised to hear the cmit has a more noticable rear lobe to the 416 considering a few people actually recommend the cmit indoors for reflective rooms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek H Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Something to keep in mind with the cs3e; it has slightly more self noise than the other usual mics. Normally not an issue but I avoid it for very quiet interviews with soft talkers. Outdoors, I've never noticed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Has anyone had a chance to test the new Sanken CSR-2 in the wild? I played with it a little at NAB, but that's a unique environment. The switchable rear lobe seemed significant in the hall, but again, not sure how that translates. I didn't get to A/B it against their CS3e (my usual short shotgun choice). It's expected to be shipping soon, but I don't know if anyone has an early demo unit yet. It's pretty close in size to the CS3e, but if you were leaning towards buying a CS3e, it might be worth testing both first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 PS: " The 416's rear lobe is horrible shooting inside. if the room has a lot of reflections, it's a beast. " it isn't necessarily the rear lobe, but you are describing the well known effects of most "interference tube" acoustic designs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prahlad Strickland Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 PS: " The 416's rear lobe is horrible shooting inside. if the room has a lot of reflections, it's a beast. " it isn't necessarily the rear lobe, but you are describing the well known effects of most "interference tube" acoustic designs good to know, i need to know more. the MKH50 has been really nice so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 Prahlad read here http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec13/articles/qanda-1213-01.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 One of the best mics available for small, echoey spaces has a rear lobe -- albeit, a small one: a Schoeps CMC with an MK41 capsule. One of the things that makes it so stellar is its smoothness of off-axis response, something that an interference tube microphone typically doesn't handle so well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyfoxx Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 I love the CS3e. My only negative for it is that damn rubberized coating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XanaX Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 I have CS3e and work perfect but if I have more money I wanna go to CMiT5U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason A Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 I have both mics and have pretty much the same experience as most here. Love the sound of the CMIT for most situations. I pull out the CS3-E for louder exteriors. If you haven't made a purchase yet, I would seriously consider the DPA 4017B as well. Quite a few people have said that it sounds very close to the Schoeps with possibly better rejection. Less expensive and possibly more durable as well. I would order both of them and return the one you don't want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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