Field Recorder for Ambience, Foley, etc.

[Alex Mitchell]

Hey guys!

 

In addition to recording production audio, I've done a few shorts now where I've doubled as the post sound lead as well. I'm not looking to do it all the time, but I've had a lot of fun doing it and I'm getting positive feedback. When I've had to record wild sound in this capacity I've just put my production gear on and recorded like I would during production, but that can be a pain in the ass when you're collecting sound from a bunch of different, uncontrolled locations.

One of the things I've been looking at more and more are handheld field recorders from Sony, Tascam, Zoom, etc., but I don't have any experience with them. I'm basically looking for the best internal microphones possible, with the end goal of recording usable wild sound for post production (foot traffic downtown, train crossing bells, forest ambiance, etc.). The recorder's ability to accept external audio through an XLR or any size of TRS isn't very important to me because I already have my Nomad 12 and a bunch of other mics.

 

The models I'm looking at right now are:

 

Sony PCM-D50

Roland R-26

Tascam DR-100

Zoom H4n & H2n

So here're what I'm asking in a "tl;dr" way:

 

1. Are portable recorders like these even useful for wild sound recording?

2. If you have any experience with these recorders, which one do you feel provides the best sound in the broadest category of situations?

 

Thanks for the help guys!

[OmahaAudio]

Add the Tascam DR-40 to you list. It's similar to the Zoom H4 but IMO a better machine and cheaper to boot ($200). I can't compare it to the units on your list (I A:B'd it with an earlier Zoom H4) but it plays well with a Sound Devices mixer and does a good job doing ambient recordings on its own.

[Nicole Hankerson]

Tascam DR-40 I own two and love them. They sound good with a 302 in front or without.

Nicole

[Alex Mitchell]

Thanks for the responses guys--I'd been thinking of the DR-40 as well. Just a reminder though, I already have a Nomad 12 so I will not be using the recorder with external mics or a mixer; the only thing I am interested in is the recording quality of the onboard mics.

[OmahaAudio]

...the only thing I am interested in is the recording quality of the onboard mics.

It's good.

[Peter Mega]

The Sony's mics sound very good but are extremely sensitive to wind. Def need wind protection and preferably a shock mount. Rycote make upside down lyres for these type of recorders. I just purchased a Rycote mount for my PCM D50 but haven't tried it yet

Also, look at the nagra lino.

[Rick Reineke]

From what I've read over the last two years or so, the Sony D50 is very highly regarded for it's internal mic recording. The D50 does not have ext. mic XLRs if that's an issue. It costs more than most of the 'budget' portables though.. around $500 USD as I recall.

I do have a DR-40, but have never used the int. mics. It accepts (nominal) +4dB via XLRs or 1/4" TRS and sounds extremely good with a 302 front-end.

[frankaudio]

I have an Olympus LS-20 and was pretty impressed with the onboard mics + it has a camera. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

[Marc Wielage]

I don't think any of them have mic preamps that are clean enough for SFX use. To me, I'd want something along the lines of a Sound Devices 722 or 744. I'm particularly suspicious of the recorders that have built-in mics. I could see where the Tascam might be OK if you fed it line level from an external preamp, even a small preamp like an SD MixPre.

[Dave]

Hi, Not an "all-in-one" but : Fostex DC-R302 with an external stereo mic. I use mine with audio technica stereo mic - small and light rig and does double duty as backup recorder. Good for dslr stuff. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/846034-REG/Fostex_DC_R302_DC_R302_3_Channel_Audio_Mixer.html Ignore file issues with DC-R302 - all well now with latest firmware. Cheers, Dave

[greg sextro]

+1 for the Sony. Very impressive sounding for an all in one recorder for its price. I bring it with me whenever I travel.

With any of these you have to be rather careful with handling noise, and certainly make sure you have adequate wind protection.

[Jesper Magnusson]

I always carry around a small handheld for any interesting sounds one might stumble across, and I'm currently looking into something similar - a small kit that I can carry with me more or less all the time in a jacket or bag, that will still give decent results. It's a bit tricky if you don't have much money to spend (which a kit like this might not really warrant - we all have better stuff for when we want to record something specific).

There are as I see it three different paths to take:

1. A handheld recorder using the internal mics. This is very small and practical with no setup time, but the internals of most handhelds are pretty noisy and sensitive to wind, and many are inflexible as to what stereo technique is available. The D50 is regarded as one of the best (a bit quieter than many others and can switch between 90 and 120 degrees), as well as the M10 (though it has omni mics, so pretty quiet but no rejection or stereo separation).

2. A handheld used with external mics running on plug in power. This adds very little bulk and gives more choices, but of course adds to setup time. They are also small enough to be put on the shoulders, cap or similar instead of carrying around a rig for stereo setups. Most of these mics are still a little noisy in the 20-25dB(A) range, and I've never tried it so don't know how big of an upgrade it would be against the internals.

3. A small handheld or similar size recorder with one or two external condensers. This gives access to good quiet mics and all the flexibility you want, but adds a lot to size, especially when you regard the need for wind protection and a way to setup the mics.

 

 

EDIT:

I looked up some more information regarding the noise specs on these small rigs, and it seems like the internal mics on the D50 has a self-noise of about 20dB-A, which would probably place most other handhelds in the region of 25+ (except the M10, which is 17dB-A but omni).
Looking at some available mics that run on PIP, most are omni and has a self-noise that is similar to 20dB-A or higher. The exception are some custom made or DIY designs on capsules with a value of 13-17dB-A. Telinga sells a small pair EM-23 omnis with self-noise of 14dB-A, but they cost 550 USD.

So, without going for an external preamp and mics, it seems like the D50 or M10 are the ones to get in regards to low noise (and they also have a reputation of sounding very good). For handhelds with XLR inputs, the ones with preamps good enough to be used with mics that are quiet and low output (16dB-A or less, 10mV), are the PMD661, Olympus LS-100, and Roland R-26.

[Erick]

Thanks for the responses guys--I'd been thinking of the DR-40 as well. Just a reminder though, I already have a Nomad 12 so I will not be using the recorder with external mics or a mixer; the only thing I am interested in is the recording quality of the onboard mics.

 

I Have Zoomh4, Tascam dr40 and SonyD50

 

Sony D50 all the time!

[nysounds]

I don't think any of them have mic preamps that are clean enough for SFX use. To me, I'd want something along the lines of a Sound Devices 722 or 744. I'm particularly suspicious of the recorders that have built-in mics. I could see where the Tascam might be OK if you fed it line level from an external preamp, even a small preamp like an SD MixPre.

+1- I use a 702 for field and sfx recording.  Still very light and compact in a porta brace slung over the shoulder.

[soundtrane]

sold my Zoom h4n and got an Olympus LS-100. A LOT better. And i have my Sony D50 - will never part with it!

 

-vin

[Corbin]

An Oade-modified Marantz PMD661 works very well in this capacity.  Oade can customize the gain structure, too.  XLR, phantom, great machine.  No limiter, though.

[bralleput]

I'm with Vin: Sony D-50.Don't leave home without it!With windprotectionfurry it is 'my weapon of choice' for quick setnoise and FX recording!