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How many cables?


Guest repete86

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Guest repete86

How long will you stretch your cables for a boom before you go wireless?  I haven't had to go past three cables yet, so I've been lucky, but at what point is it no longer safe to use a line for longer tracking shots?  I've been thinking about getting a wireless transmitter, but I really don't want to spend the money on it at the moment if I can help it since I have other things I would like to spend my money on before going wireless.

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How long will you stretch your cables for a boom before you go wireless?

You can go hundreds of feet and it will almost always sound better than most wireless boom setups. When you say "how safe" is it to have that much cable out on a long tracking shot, that's another question if you are really talking about safety. Some shots require wireless boom for just this reason --- it is not feasible to run cable the distances required (but this is not an issue of line loss or anything like that).

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

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Peter, you can purchase a lot of cable and microphones for the cost of a quality wireless system.  And depending on your type of work might not need the wireless often.  But when the shot DEMANDS it, there is almost no other way.  And it goes beyond the long tracking shots...car to car shots...extreme long lense shots...the list goes on.

cleve

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Guest repete86

Thanks.  I'm recording audio for a friend next week, and because of the shot, the closest that I will be able to get my recorder to the boom is about 120 feet around a corner.  It's a 360 degree shot around the actors as they're walking, so I wasn't sure if that was a safe limit.  I haven't ever had to go more than about 60' away, so I figured I had better ask before I plug in and find out that I have nothing but line noise.

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I am really curious about this setup.

If I could ask...

How far is the camera from the subject, and what format and lens are being used, such that the camera can do a circle around the subject, the boom is out of the frame, and the distance between the recorder/sound person and the subect must be at least 120 feet?

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Guest repete86

It isn't a 35mm cam.  It's just a battery powered miniDV camera that I'm assuming will be probably about eight feet from the subjects in a wide alley.  My rig isn't portable, so I can't walk with the boom operator.  I have no idea what they're planning on doing to keep my cables out of sight, but I'm sure that there will be something that can be done.

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It isn't a 35mm cam.  It's just a battery powered miniDV camera that I'm assuming will be probably about eight feet from the subjects in a wide alley.  My rig isn't portable, so I can't walk with the boom operator.  I have no idea what they're planning on doing to keep my cables out of sight, but I'm sure that there will be something that can be done.

Well, you've just decribed a situation in which wireless boom (and/or wireless lav on the actors) would probably be a very good idea--the boom cabling will be kind of a mess.  A more pertinent cable question might be how are you getting the audio to the camera or are you doing double system for that shot?

Philip Perkins

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Peter,

How does the cinematographer intend to move the camera around this circle, which has a circumference of 50' (3.14x16).  Track and dolly?  Stabilizing rig?  Wheelchair?  Handheld?

Does the cinematographer intend to use a focal length and camera height/angle that would pick up the ground (and any cable strung around the circumference) 8' behind the subject?  Given a lens to subject distance of 8', that is easily avoidable.  Can you run the cable inside the circumference?  Can you hang the michrophone(s) overhead of the actors?

Is the issue recording the shot, or managing the noise that the shot is going to generate?

There might be something to be said for you and the cinematographer meeting to experiment a bit before doing this shot, and especially before going out to buy or rent wireless gear.

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Guest repete86

I just spoke with the director.  It looks like it won't be as difficult as I had originally anticipated, but I will still need to use alot of cable.  What they're thinking of doing is masking the cable with some gaff tape on the corner of the building, and having me around the corner.  The camera will be following the two subjects int eh alley.  They will stop, and the camera will keep going for a minute, pass them on their right side, then stop a little bit ahead of the two actors.  They will start again and pass the camera on their left side and the camera will follow them again until the end of the alley.  It looks like what I can do it run the cable along the edge of the building up until the point where they pass the camera, then leave enough slack after that for the PA to hold and guide as the camera follows them.  The camera won't go low enough to see where the gaff tape ends.  The camera will be on a steadicam. 

Thanks.

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This actually brought up a new question for me.  Has anyone ever been asked to use the chroma-colored (green or blue) audio cables (Canare and others make them)?  Certainly creates an option for removing errant cables in post, but also makes them stand out in situations where you could otherwise mask them.

Phil

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This actually brought up a new question for me.  Has anyone ever been asked to use the chroma-colored (green or blue) audio cables (Canare and others make them)?  Certainly creates an option for removing errant cables in post, but also makes them stand out in situations where you could otherwise mask them.

Phil

No--after the first shoot they get dirty and then they don't key.  We usually tape over the cables and then paint the tape along with the floor etc.

Philip Perkins

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Peter,

With good cable and staying clear of issues from ballasts/AC/generators/neon, and all the rest you are good for hundreds of feet without issue.  Obviously, as many have posted wireless is often times more convenient in that you fire it up and away you go, but I concur with Jeff in  saying that a cable will almost always sound better.

I mean I can't remember the last time one of my mic cables fritzed, or took a hit, or a dropout.  Ok all kidding aside, if you can get away with a cable by all means do so.  If it becomes a weighing of convenience and ability to get the job done in a more efficient manner that is the point where you start to decide if wireless will do the job.

Good Luck,

Gerry Formicola

Chicago, Illinois

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  • 1 month later...
Guest Eric Lamontagne

I've had cables frizzle, 48v through bad/pinched cable or connectors with strange metal enriched water causing wierd resistance. Blew a few strips on my board that way! Generally 300ft of mic cable is a no brainer.

Peter,

Rent a lectrosonic for the day! Just lets suppose the director or DOP change their mind?! I'd be prepared to do both wireless boom to your cart OR directly to the DV cam (bring the right cables). You might find that 120 feet in a RF hostile environment is too much distance? Maybe the video transmitter on the stedicam is too powerful and too close to your freq on your wireless. Be prepared, thats what makes you a soundy!

Maybe you can park your rig inside the building, out of shot, but way closer to the talent. I've done this exact situation in a coffee shop and had a nice Late while the shot was taking place directly outside the one way reflective glass. Three characters, HDcam on Stedi 360deg.

Good Luck,

Eric

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Guest tourtelot

Also, although I rarely find myself with the need to do it, having a small rig to wear, with or without a boomman on a shorter cable can be a shot-saver.  A friend was recently shooting up on the hill in Griffeth Park and the RF was so bad that no wireless worked and anything other than the shortest Canare boom cable was saturated.  He mixed for two booms with a direct-plugged Deva on his chest, ENG style.  Would not have gotten the shot otherwise.

You might think about that for your 360.  The camera sees nothing directly behind (well, in reflection maybe.)

D.

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