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Sound devices total failure and file loss

Sound devices file loss

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64 replies to this topic

#1
Pablo

Pablo
  • LocationNYC
<p>Sound devices,<br />
<br />
So I was doing a corporate gig and it was an interview with a woman, simple setup boom and lav.<br />
We shot around 8 hours and we did 10 scenes, the 744 was recording as usual until scene 5, what I mean is that the files on the hdd where perfect and from scene 5 on, all the files are between 3mb and. 20 mb. While the first takes where around 150mb.<br />
The recorder indicated I was recording on the hdd but it was slow on the CF, I couldn't stop the take, so we kept rolling with the 744 indicating recording on the hdd<br />
My surprise came when I handed the files, the editor called me in stating half of the footage wasn't there and the files where cut before talent got to speak (in the middle of a sentence), I do recall that when I started recording everything was fine up to minute 2:30 where the cf stopped and the hdd continued.<br />
There was 8 gigs free on the HDD, and the CF were formatted before putting them in ,I tried different brands and speeds while on set (san disk, Kingston 6mb/s and 133x) nothing worked, menu said slow in both backups, cf and hdd , I turned down the system, let it cool off and back in. Same thing.<br />
I wasn't running a backup because it wasn't needed on this specific shoot, I was told to bring a light sound setup, and no sound on camera, just the sound from the 7d's. they wanted separate recordings.<br />
My solutions were:<br />
I told my client not to pay me, because I didn't deliver what they expected from me, and also I offered my postproduction services for free, if anybody knows a better option, I'm very open to suggestion on how to approach this situation.<br />
Basically my client believes I did knew my recorder wasnt rolling, and I didn't stopped the shoot, hardware error = sound guy blame<br />
I checked files inside the recorder and it was the same issue than the files on the computer.<br />
<br />
If anybody can help would be highly appreciated.<br />
<br />
Cheers</p>
Pablo Diez - Location sound and Music. Greater NYC area. “If at first you don't succeed call it version 1.0”

#2
Pablo

Pablo
  • LocationNYC
Also-

This is the first time I experience a problem of such dimensions, I always always have backups, but for any reason my brain believed production and I didn't brought my back up gear with me.
I've transferred all the folders to an ext. hdd and formatted the 744, used it on a 2 day shoot and everything is fine.
Now I'm afraid this would happen again, if somebody has experienced this problem before will be super helpful to get another person's experience.
Hopefully this doesn't happen to you guys because it is a horrible experience.
Pablo Diez - Location sound and Music. Greater NYC area. “If at first you don't succeed call it version 1.0”

#3
Vasileios Alexandris

Vasileios Alexandris
  • LocationThessaloniki, GR

Magic words: Approved cards, Format (CF, HDD before shooting), Playback, Backup


Vasileios Alexandris

1st Assistant Sound / Boom Operator

Greece, Thessaloniki


#4
Philip Perkins

Philip Perkins

You have contacted SD about this, right?

 

When you see an error like this you should call a cut if you possibly can and deal with it then.  Try recording on the HDD only (a test) and play that back.

 

You had an issue like that and you didn't check the files immediately, or before handing them in?

 

philp



#5
thebrengun

thebrengun
  • LocationNYC

I haven't experienced anything like that since the PD4 I was using ate the DAT tape :X  Fortunately that was at the start of the day and little was lost.  I don't normally run two redundant machines either since the 744 would be acting as primary and as backup but of course, you never know.  I think the big mistake was not stopping and playing back the takes on the machine.  It has happened to me, that you can sometimes play back takes on the machine but not on the computer, indicating that the files can sometimes be repaired or at least re-recorded through the recorder's output.  It would also have alerted you to the problem immediately and you could have taken a 10 minute break to transfer the already shot files, re-format etc.



#6
Pablo

Pablo
  • LocationNYC
Hey Philip, no I didn't contact them yet because I ha a gig everyday since thn (3 days has passed) and I need the money so I took a back up and just kept working, tomorrow I'll do so.
You are totally right, I should have played back all the files I saw they were only recording on the hdd, I have to admit that I got a bit nervous due to 6 creatives on the room demanding to keep shooting (faces looking at me), that is my mistake.
I never had a problem like this before, so when I saw the internal hard drive recording my only thought was that I don't have a back up, but I had my recordings in place.
But, why the recorder looks to work fine now? I'm on set recording 4 channels and everything is fine.
As I said, I'll contact SD tomorrow, thanks
Pablo Diez - Location sound and Music. Greater NYC area. “If at first you don't succeed call it version 1.0”

#7
Pablo

Pablo
  • LocationNYC
I deff would have needed to play back the files when I saw something was wrong.
First skeleton in my closet?
Pablo Diez - Location sound and Music. Greater NYC area. “If at first you don't succeed call it version 1.0”

#8
Jesse Flaitz

Jesse Flaitz
  • LocationNY

I'm not sure I agree with you telling your client not to pay you.  HDD fail, files get corrupted, etc. Shit happens, don't work for free because something failed on you.


Production sound. NYC.

http://pedanticsound.net

“A cable is a source of potential trouble connecting two other sources of potential trouble.”


#9
Chris Woodcock

Chris Woodcock
  • LocationN.Ireland

I'm not sure I agree with you telling your client not to pay you.  HDD fail, files get corrupted, etc. Shit happens, don't work for free because something failed on you.


If the camera broke rest assured the camera boys would still get paid

Regards

Chris W


Chris W

#10
Den Nic

Den Nic
  • LocationToronto Ontario Canada

I'm not sure about the no payment thing, that's really a choice you need to make taking into account all that you know about the situation and your clients.

 

As for the error, like the guys said, as soon as something is wrong (or appears to be wrong) you need to stop the shoot, and make sure your setup is fine. If the files didn't playback or weren't recording upon testing, I'd tell them that the recorder has an error and I'll need a new one. IDEALLY you'd have a backup but if not you'd have to hold production while someone goes and rents a new 744T (or 702, or whatever is available), check that out, and make sure it's good.

I'd rather hold up a production for 3 hours cause of a computer error than assume it's all good and deliver nothing at the end of the day!

Also, filling up a hard drive to near capacity is never a good thing, If you ONLY have 8GB left on a large hard drive it's probably best to dump all that somewhere and start it fresh. And yes, Approved/Recommended Cards and Speeds Always.


Dennis Nicholson - Sound & Music - Toronto, Canada
www.dennisnicholson.com

#11
Pablo

Pablo
  • LocationNYC
I was very hesitant at the time to say that, but I feel that, even though it wasn't completely my fault, I made them loose half day of shoot which probably has cost them around $10000, I rather keep my integrity and say the truth, than walk home knowing I got paid for something I didn't deliver, I can get more money in the next months, but it will take me years to get rid of the feeling that I did the wrong thing.
However, they have sound from camera(7D) it was around 5 feet away from talent and a bit off axis, I offered my post production services for free as well.
I can't stand to do a bad job, honor is everything for me.
Pablo Diez - Location sound and Music. Greater NYC area. “If at first you don't succeed call it version 1.0”

#12
Philip Perkins

Philip Perkins

No shame on you for guaranteeing your work up to the amount they might have paid you, but certainly no farther (that's what production insurance is for).  Even great gear fails at some point, every dog has his day.   If you can help them w/ DX cleanup in post then good for you.  It is a very hard thing to tell a production in progress that you have a problem and recording needs to stop for a few minutes while you straighten things out, I understand that very well.  But the lesson here is that you have to do it, rather than let them continue on thinking everything is ok.  You can frame it as a choice if you want--"I think I may have a problem, and I need some time to sort out what's going on.  We can keep rolling if you want but I can't guarantee that everything is working correctly right now.  What do you want to do?".  

 

philp



#13
Toy Robot

Toy Robot
  • LocationBrooklyn, NY

...It is a very hard thing to tell a production in progress that you have a problem and recording needs to stop for a few minutes while you straighten things out, I understand that very well.  But the lesson here is that you have to do it, rather than let them continue on thinking everything is ok.  You can frame it as a choice if you want--"I think I may have a problem, and I need some time to sort out what's going on.  We can keep rolling if you want but I can't guarantee that everything is working correctly right now.  What do you want to do?".  

 

philp

 

This is the key. It's difficult, but it simply must be done. 


\\\\\\ Alex Ramirez
Toy Robot Studios
FCC Call Sign WQPU870


#14
RadoStefanov

RadoStefanov
  • LocationLas Vegas US

Have a backup at all times.


Las Vegas Nevada Sound Mixer

#15
Johnathan Sessoms

Johnathan Sessoms
  • LocationOrlando, FL

Have a backup at all times.

 

 

Agreed.


Sessoms

#16
Jack Norflus

Jack Norflus
  • LocationBrooklyn, New York
Better for them to hate you for an hour while you get your shit together than to hate you forever for screwing up.
Because everyone will soon forget that you held up production while you check files/fix something. But they will NEVER forget not delivering files.

#17
Jack Norflus

Jack Norflus
  • LocationBrooklyn, New York
I always check files before handing them off - even if there is no indication if a problem.
And I always spot check throughout the day.

#18
afewmoreyears

afewmoreyears
  • LocationWestern United States

Please retitle OP.... That is misleading ... I doubt it was a TOTAL FAILURE by SD and more likely TOTAL operator error..  ;)

 

  That's a joke....  I have never run to full capacity of a HD... why would you do that unless your in a jungle... miles from a computer or an external drive... It's like the car computer that says you have 66 miles left to go before you run out of gas and 26 miles down the road... your done...

 

 Didn't stop to check...  after a problem like that?.. ?  really... Tell the faces to take a breath while you check something out... see how easy?

 

Don't pay me.... what!!!  Your high...LOL..

 

BU not needed on this specific shoot.... well, guess you answered that point....  

 

6mb per second...?  How about 60 mb/ sec  or 90 mb / sec...

 

 I don't know what to say because I think translation plays here as does some very interesting likely possibilities... but total failure by that machine I would bet is NOT one of them... Working magically now hunh...  Hummm..

If your HD went, your CF should be OK, and visa versa... I doubt everything suddenly went to pot... Possible? maybe.. but unlikely..

 

As has been recommended, get the machine to the mothership for your own piece of mind  ... it is the only way to get to the bottom of things.. the only way to feel good on your next set of gigs... This is how the electronic game is... At least call the nice folks at SD as you say you will...  Vahn and the guys are really nice and may get it done over the phone... you never know.. but total failure?

Just sayin..



#19
Marc Wielage

Marc Wielage
  • LocationNorthridge, CA

There was 8 gigs free on the HDD, and the CF were formatted before putting them in ,I tried different brands and speeds while on set (san disk, Kingston 6mb/s and 133x) nothing worked, menu said slow in both backups, cf and hdd , I turned down the system, let it cool off and back in. Same thing.

 

This is the part that concerns me. I think going into an interview thing with only 8GB free on the drive is very scary. I've always believed that you have to have at least 15-20% empty space on drives just to give the system some "breathing" room. I suspect this was a factor. 

 

Every few months, I'll blow a whole bunch of stuff off the drive to open up more space. I would always make sure I had a whole bunch of available space on the HD and then use a freshly-formatted CF card (as you did) just in case. If I'm only using a few tracks and know I'm not going to get anywhere near 16GB in a couple of days, then I'll reuse the same card from the day before. 

 

I would call SD service and see if they'd be willing to take a look at the drive. At least this is a good cautionary tale, and another reason why it's a good idea to pipe some kind of feed to the camera and let that be a backup in the event of catastrophic failure. 


www.cinesound.tv | location sound • post-production consultant

#20
Boomboom

Boomboom
  • LocationMontréal, Canada

Informative thread.

As for changing the title, it may bring misunderstanding but if we read we still can understand some things and try to figure out, along with the OP.


--- Pierre ---
--- Montréal , Canada ---

#21
Jeff Wexler

Jeff Wexler
  • LocationSanta Monica, CA USA

Except for the title of this topic, if you read all the posts carefully, the poster is not blaming Sound Devices, the company. The report concerns the failure of a Sound Devices recorder, this is a fact, but the reasons for the failure (which was epic and that is why it has gotten our attention) has not yet been determined. The fact of an experience that resulted in a failed recording does NOT damn the company OR the product. Throughout the history of JWSOUND, we have had numerous reports regarding just about every company and every device we all use, and there have been many times when people jump to a conclusion or use a given report to further validate some pre-existing bias or agenda regarding a company. We have had threads with titles like "Zaxcom FAILS --- I almost lost my job!" and after reading twenty or more posts it is discovered that the operator pushed STOP instead of RECORD, or forgot to format an approved card, or had a battery die, things like that. 

 

Even when the details of this chilling incident are discovered, should it turn out that there was no operator error, the Sound Devices recorder did some very bad things, so what? As has been pointed out countless times here and is a fact of life in our working world, ANY piece of equipment can have a failure. As wonderful a company as is Sound Devices, or Zaxcom, or Lectro, none are immune to the potential failure of any of their products.

 

Changing the title of this post is not necessary --- changing the way we read and interpret things that are reported here IS important. So, let's not let this blame Sound Devices, or Zaxcom, or Lectro, etc.


Jeff Wexler, CAS
Santa Monica, California
 
"I don't care if you've got ninety tracks... what does it sound like, baby"
- Ray Charles

#22
afewmoreyears

afewmoreyears
  • LocationWestern United States

Really not a big deal... at all...

 

But,  NOT blaming Sound Devices... Humm..

 

  Letts all read together..

 Quote...  "Sound devices total failure"...  Not the best way to express the problem, I think some may agree...

 

In saying retitle the post I only meant to say there is probably a better way to address the issue.... I think the original post title is unfair... thats all... and see the smilley?...  Not too serious at that...

I hope he contacts them and they fix whatever the problem was...



#23
Jeff Wexler

Jeff Wexler
  • LocationSanta Monica, CA USA

"In saying retitle the post I only meant to say there is probably a better way to address the issue.... I think the original post title is unfair... thats all..."

 

Agreed. Part of the meaning of my post was to state once again that there is often a better way of addressing lots of these issues, the bad ones as well as the good ones. I think I may have over-reacted also because I have such a detailed memory of so many other posts in the past that I have had to "moderate" in some fashion or another, to try and put some of these things on the proper path where blame and bashing or any other unsavory agenda is being pursued.


Jeff Wexler, CAS
Santa Monica, California
 
"I don't care if you've got ninety tracks... what does it sound like, baby"
- Ray Charles

#24
Pablo

Pablo
  • LocationNYC

First of all thanks to Jeff for understanding the post and stating what is obvious.

 

Hey afewmoreyears, I've been working with SD for years, my bills get paid with that machine, it never failed on me before, but you dont seem to understand that mechanical devices can have total failures...I'm not changing the title because that is what happened, and, if you didn't notice, I was asking for HELP finding a solution, if I need somebody to say it was an OP mistake and diminish me I'll go to the production office where things are hot now.... :) (see? happy face too! :)))

 

Let me rephrase things for you so you can have a better scope:

 

I was recording an interview, machine indicates its recording, operator believes and continues working, later on we discover that files where from 15sec to 20 sec of recording, my machine was RECORDING I wasn't pressing stop or any other button , it was RECORDING. Hope you understand now.

 

Hey Rob Lewis, were you there? do you know what the machine was indicating? I'm not bashing SD, you guys reaaaaaally want to flip this over, again, if you READ READ READ you'll see I'm asking for help and stating a humongous glitch on my recorder, I'm sorry you guys don't see it that way.

 

Thanks to phillip and Jeff to make me understand a bit more about the whole issue, is a shame that only a few are willing to help and the rest like to point their fingers and laugh.

 

Now that I explained myself to other colleagues we can talk about what really matters.

 

My SD was purchased on march 2012 as a back up gear to use for interviews and small set ups, latest version with all approved cards, it did had only 8 gigs free on the hdd, but I tried 8,16 and 32 gig CF cards ( brands mentioned above) and same thing, it wasn't able to record on the card.

 

I'm now trying to retouch the sound from the 5d, and possibly we will have to reshoot, I dont know how the producers feel about that.

 

Lesson Learned 


Pablo Diez - Location sound and Music. Greater NYC area. “If at first you don't succeed call it version 1.0”

#25
Pablo

Pablo
  • LocationNYC

And I just find amazing that some people use typos and spelling errors to make you look stupid.

please grow up


Pablo Diez - Location sound and Music. Greater NYC area. “If at first you don't succeed call it version 1.0”

#26
studiomprd

studiomprd
  • LocationHollywood CA

" no I didn't contact them yet because I ha a gig everyday since thn (3
days has passed) and I need the money ...
You are totally right, I should have played back all the files I saw
they were only recording on the hdd, I have to admit that I got a bit
nervous due to 6 creatives on the room demanding to keep shooting (faces
looking at me), that is my mistake....
"

You told them there is a problem, and "they" insisted on going on ??  you should have gotten that in writing!

" I was very hesitant at the time to say that, but I feel that, even though it wasn't completely my fault, "

Den Nic was correct, Philip P, and Toy Robot , too, you should have held the shoot up, and since you did not, it is now all "sound's" fault...

 Jack made some correct good points, and Rado was correct, a pro always has a plan B available nearby (this varies based on circumstances from a Zoom and some other spares in the car to a full second rig, or at least one a phone call and < 2 hours away.... for example, in Hawai'i, during the TC Nagra and TC DAT era, that meant if going to the neighbor islands, schlepping a spare recorder!

" I never had a problem like this before, "

CRAP happens, and Murphy lurks...

" "Sound devices total failure"...  Not the best way to express the problem, I think some may agree... "

and I agree, the title opening is perhaps misleading...


Edited by studiomprd, 11 February 2013 - 10:38 AM.

SENATOR Mike Michaels, c.a.s.
Studio M Productions

#27
Pablo

Pablo
  • LocationNYC

Yes Senator absolutely, actually I believe there's a recording were I rolled and I mentioned something was wrong, and right after that you hear CAMERA "A" ROLLING!! and I see how in my 744 menu both CF and HDD are recording, after 2 minutes and 30 seconds it starts blinking showing me "slow" on the CF BUT still recording on the HDD, I kept rolling, let me add that this was happening some times on HDD, sometimes on the CF, and always around 2 minutes and between 10 and 40 seconds.

 

I went to the DIT and expressed my concern, we talked through it and he asked me if I could record, I said my system was only recording on the HDD and not in the CF, so there was no backup, that was my only concern.

 

Little that I know, and only god knows why, I didn't played back the clips to check, maybe because lack of time or because I was focusing more on what was going on between my CF and HDD. It will not happen again.

 

CRAP happens yes, but I should have played back the files as well as stop the shoot when I saw something was wrong. That is clear

 

Pablo


Pablo Diez - Location sound and Music. Greater NYC area. “If at first you don't succeed call it version 1.0”

#28
ProSound

ProSound
  • LocationSavannah Ga

Any time I get a media I/O error ( Which has been rare) Immediately check file after take or it is something quick and simple as for another take. I also spot check my files all day when we cut and make sure the DIT spot checks on his end as well 


Whitney Ince | www.prolocationsound.com | South East USA
Savannah, Atlanta , Charleston and Jacksonville
FCC LPAB (Part 74) Lic. WQOC497


#29
studiomprd

studiomprd
  • LocationHollywood CA

" I went to the DIT and expressed my concern, "

wrong person...

1AD is your initial contact.  any professional AD (or production!) will give you time to sort it out.


SENATOR Mike Michaels, c.a.s.
Studio M Productions

#30
afewmoreyears

afewmoreyears
  • LocationWestern United States

And I just find amazing that some people use typos and spelling errors to make you look stupid.

please grow up

Sorry Pablo, but there were so many I thought there was a communication situation going on... in other words, I thought English was not your first language... nobody's making fun of you... I am the king of poor spelling...

 And..  I don't understand that mechanical devices can have total failure?...  I actually do which is why I have a van full of gear and spare recorders... and, always roll two machines for this very reason... whether they pay or not... The spare rolling machine is not for them, it's for me... When one fails, or is problematic, I check data and swap it out...

 

 I understand fully what happened... You had an issue with a SD 744T machine, and, rather than stop and check your data, like you SHOULD HAVE,  you choose to continue to roll with no back-up and doing so with half your brain screaming at you "I have no idea if the data is being laid down or not" and....   you did all this because the record light was illuminated and the wheels were spinning ....

 

"my machine was RECORDING I wasn't pressing stop or any other button , it was RECORDING. Hope you understand now."

 

NO it was not recording, it was having an issue with the red light on... big difference.. If it was recording we would not be engauging in this rather amusing exchange of thoughts.

 

 

"Let me rephrase things for you so you can have a better scope:"

 

Do I have scope...?  Yes, I think I do...



#31
studiomprd

studiomprd
  • LocationHollywood CA

" my machine was RECORDING I wasn't pressing stop or any other button , "

my machine indicated it was RECORDING I wasn't pressing stop or any other button ...,

....though one of the buttons or controls may have been jammed, or otherwise malfunctioning...

it was RECORDING

it only looked like it was RECORDING

 

and as you have obscured your location, I too though that you were not a native speaker of English language...


SENATOR Mike Michaels, c.a.s.
Studio M Productions

#32
Pablo

Pablo
  • LocationNYC

Go for the kill,

 

Thanks about the malfunctioning info, I'll check that.


Pablo Diez - Location sound and Music. Greater NYC area. “If at first you don't succeed call it version 1.0”

#33
Marc Wielage

Marc Wielage
  • LocationNorthridge, CA

it only looked like it was RECORDING...

 

The Senator took the words out of my mouth!  Yep, I think the Red light was on, but nobody was home! The right thing to do would've been to have asked for a 1-minute break to check the files, and once the problem was found, stop down and find a solution. It's possible a reboot would've solved it -- or trying a brand-new card, or deleting several large files on the hard drive and emptying the trash. Or all of the above.

 

The moment any machine displays an error message like "slow media," alarm bells go off in my head and I'll immediately call a time-out. I'd rather get yelled at for a 1-minute delay than get yelled at for a catastrophic failure. Granted, it's easy to have 20/20 hindsight after panic situations.


www.cinesound.tv | location sound • post-production consultant

#34
chris_bollard

chris_bollard
  • LocationSydney, Australia
+1. Slow media tells you there is a big problem. When I see a slow media warning I assume that there is a problem with the recorded files. Having only 8gig on the internal is a big problem too; 8gig is as small as I go with CF cards. As mentioned earlier in thread hdds really don't like it when the total free space is less than 25% of the total drive capacity. Back up the other files on the drive and create some more free space.

These drives are pretty bullet proof, but not fool proof. I use mine every working day in some difficult environments generally without any technical issues. If something does go wrong a restart usually fixes it.
Chris Bollard
Location Sound Recordist
email: chris_bollard@optusnet.com.au
tel: 0419 403 596

#35
Pablo

Pablo
  • LocationNYC
Yes, well, not only the red light was blinking, the 2 icons on the left side of the 744 screen (CF & HDD) were blinking indicating ( or looked like indicating) data was being written on the drive and CF card.

I've been shooting in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico (so I've been running with my rig on), in cold areas in Europe and even in waterfalls, and only one time in my recorder's professional life I've seen "slow", took a break to cool off,re-booted system, everything was fine.

In this particular instance, I rebooted the device 4 times in a 7 hour time frame, also giving it some time to cool off (btwn 5-10min), I didn't tried a brand new card, I tried different brands and formatting the cards in advance ( yes all approved media cards ) with different speeds; the trash on the HDD wasn't big ( around 250 mb), due to lack of time I didn't tried to erase large files on the HDD.

The thing that I still don't fully understand is that how is it possible that after the 2nd minute and around 30 seconds the CF stopped writing but the HDD didn't, if it was a formatted 16 gig card , this issue happened during the last 5 hours of the shoot on every take, thats what's missing from the audio recordings.

Moreover, the files do exist on the project folder, the issue is that it cuts when talent is speaking and the file finishes there.
Also, there's some files separated into 2 parts ( and they are not big enough to make the device do the file split, 10-20mb).
Pablo Diez - Location sound and Music. Greater NYC area. “If at first you don't succeed call it version 1.0”

#36
Jack Norflus

Jack Norflus
  • LocationBrooklyn, New York

The thing that I still don't fully understand is that how is it possible that after the 2nd minute and around 30 seconds the CF stopped writing but the HDD didn't, if it was a formatted 16 gig card , this issue happened during the last 5 hours of the shoot, thats what's missing from the audio recordings.

Moreover, the files do exist on the project folder, the issue is that it cuts when talent is speaking and the file finishes there.
Also, there's some files separated into 2 parts ( and they are not big enough to make the device do the file split, 10-20mb).

As my good friend Mr Senator would ask "did you <HAT>" yet?
I'm sure lots of questions will be answered if and when you do.

#37
Jeff Wexler

Jeff Wexler
  • LocationSanta Monica, CA USA

If you are referring to the title of this thread, forget about it, it is not going to change. We are all sensitive to the topic title when on casual reading it holds the possibility of several different interpretations and conclusions, there is no need to change this. In the past, we have had numerous titles that could be seen as damning a whole company or a whole line of products, but only if one reads the title and nothing else! I personally hated the long running thread whose title was something like "Zaxcom Deva epic fail --- I almost lost my job" which started out with a total condemnation of the unreliability, unpredictable operation of the very same recorder that I have done 22 feature films without incident, not even a hiccup! Should I have changed the title? I don't think so. Everyone here knows that the products from our usual suspects, the devices we use every day, are very reliable, trustworthy and predictable. A title that declares that  one individual, the originator of the post, had a catastrophic failure with ANY of these machines, is not cause for any sort of over the top over reaction or a change in the topic heading.


Jeff Wexler, CAS
Santa Monica, California
 
"I don't care if you've got ninety tracks... what does it sound like, baby"
- Ray Charles

#38
afewmoreyears

afewmoreyears
  • LocationWestern United States

Pablo,

 

 Here is the number: 608-524-0625..

 

 Give SD a call... THEY will be the best source for info on your situation..

 You kept trying to Let the machine rest, let it cool off, reformatting etc..   It's like when your vehicle throws a timing belt, you can let it cool off and restart it all you want... sometimes there is a problem... and it is just not going to restart..  The dealership or qualified repair will get you on your way...

 Morel of the story is... don't go to ANY foreign country without a backup, and don't continue to roll when your brain is screaming problem...

 Trying to fully understand what is going on while in battle is robbing your brain of operating effeciency..  Swap out, move on and figure it out later...

 I am sure you will get to the bottom of it all...  It may be something dumb... and then again, maybe not...

Take away this... you have learned valuable lessons here that you will never forget... and lastly, you may actually be amused by this story years from now...

Good luck..



#39
johnpaul215

johnpaul215
  • LocationPhiladelphia - PA - USA

Seriously, if somebody made a car as reliable as anything from Sound Devices, Zaxcom or Lectrosonics, they would own the market.... and a car failure can kill people. 

This situation sucks for Pablo, so hopefully we can all take it as a learning experience, but at the end of the day nobody died. 


johnpaul golaski - Philadelphia PA USA - www.JOHNPAUL215.com
FCC LP Call Sign WQQM443


#40
Alexander Burstein

Alexander Burstein
  • LocationLos Angeles
The title is also attention grabbing, which might have led to more viewers/readers. All posting, and i'm sure most reading are familiar with the products of zaxcom, SD, and lectro. I highly doubt their opinions of SD changed from this topic, especially after reading the content here. It doesn't hurt anyone to leave the title I think.

#41
studiomprd

studiomprd
  • LocationHollywood CA

" The thing that I still don't fully understand is that how is it possible
that after the 2nd minute and around 30 seconds the CF stopped writing
but the HDD didn't, if it was a formatted 16 gig card , this issue
happened during the last 5 hours of the shoot on every take, thats
what's missing from the audio recordings.
"

you will never fully understand this,  --even if you learned and could inderstand the programming of the firmware....

CRAP HAPPENS


SENATOR Mike Michaels, c.a.s.
Studio M Productions

#42
John Blankenship

John Blankenship
  • LocationIndianapolis

...
CRAP HAPPENS


Except when it doesn't.

(A Senatorism sent back your way <g>.)
John B., CAS

#43
Pablo

Pablo
  • LocationNYC

Afewmoreyears, thanks for the info, I'll check that, hopefully is not something that requires to take my baby away for a long time, I don't like much the idea of having to take the 788 for an interview job where my 744 would nail it.

 

There's a lot of useful information I surely will use on future gigs that will help me determine any problem related with this issue, that's a fact.

 

I don't think anybody will change their opinion based upon this post, there's experience enough to not judge a book by it's cover.

 

Just say that without this tools (SD,Zaxcom,Lectro...) I would never be able to do my job as I like to do it, I'm not bashing, I'm stating a fact.

 

CRAP HAPPENS


Pablo Diez - Location sound and Music. Greater NYC area. “If at first you don't succeed call it version 1.0”

#44
Chris Harris

Chris Harris
  • LocationAtlanta

There was 8 gigs free on the HDD, and the CF were formatted before putting them in ,I tried different brands and speeds while on set (san disk, Kingston 6mb/s and 133x) nothing worked, menu said slow in both backups, cf and hdd , I turned down the system, let it cool off and back in. Same thing.
I wasn't running a backup because it wasn't needed on this specific shoot, I was told to bring a light sound setup, and no sound on camera, just the sound from the 7d's. they wanted separate recordings.

Always reformat hard drive when over half way full! Id be willing to bet this was your problem.  SD machines have acted up on me several times with full hard drives.  I always run 3 media, I keep the internal CF hand over the external CF and each show starts with an empty hard drive.  At the end of a show I put the internal CF card on the shelf for a few weeks until I need it again and then I wipe it.



#45
Pablo

Pablo
  • LocationNYC

In case that was my problem, I can infer that when I format the HDD everything goes back to normal, and as long as I don't reach that capacity again, that problem won't happen again??

 

I called SD yesterday, the guy said he was going to "research" my issue, ask my first name, cell number and I'm still waiting for his call.


Pablo Diez - Location sound and Music. Greater NYC area. “If at first you don't succeed call it version 1.0”

#46
studiomprd

studiomprd
  • LocationHollywood CA

" I can infer that when I format the HDD everything goes back to normal,
and as long as I don't reach that capacity again, that problem won't
happen again??
"

of course you can, but I wouldn't!

Neither would Murphy


SENATOR Mike Michaels, c.a.s.
Studio M Productions

#47
Pablo

Pablo
  • LocationNYC

If I would, that'll only mean I learned nothing from all this discussion.

 

I was speaking with Jesse Parker from SD who kindly addressed some of my questions:

 

The 744t reads the take list every time is booted on, obviously, the more information you have stored on the recorder, the more chances of a slow down in speed on the HDD can occur. Common sense. I had only 8G of free space when I was operating the issue, that means the recorder was almost 90% of its capacity.Bad move.

 

This is another conclusion, If the recorder shows a problem in one of the storage back ups, probably and most definitely is going to be happening in all the back up connections running at the time, that answers why it couldn't write in CF when it was formatted and empty.

"slow" = stop rolling.

 

Also, SD sent me a loaner 744t while they take a look to mine to see if the HDD is in good condition, the process will take around 2 weeks. I won't be charged for nothing and Jesse gave me his number to call him anytime I have a problem in or outside set with any of my SD gear.

Pretty happy about that.


Pablo Diez - Location sound and Music. Greater NYC area. “If at first you don't succeed call it version 1.0”

#48
studiomprd

studiomprd
  • LocationHollywood CA

" Pretty happy about that. "

<cap> works!


SENATOR Mike Michaels, c.a.s.
Studio M Productions

#49
afewmoreyears

afewmoreyears
  • LocationWestern United States

Pablo,

 

  I am REALLY happy you are on the road to recovery... 

 

  As I said, they are really nice human beings there at Sound Devices.... It sounds like they are taking great care of you.... (as I knew they would)...

 

Great products..

Nice people..

 

Equals:

 

A company I like doing business with.



#50
Marc Wielage

Marc Wielage
  • LocationNorthridge, CA

Also, SD sent me a loaner 744t while they take a look to mine to see if the HDD is in good condition, the process will take around 2 weeks. I won't be charged for nothing and Jesse gave me his number to call him anytime I have a problem in or outside set with any of my SD gear. Pretty happy about that.

 

That's above and beyond the call of duty! That's terrific that SD takes care of their customers so well. 

 

I've generally been able to get calls back from SD in an hour or less when I've called them with (rare) problems or questions. The Sound Devices user group is also very helpful. 


www.cinesound.tv | location sound • post-production consultant