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Super-Cmit 2U vs KMR82i Shotgun Shootout / ATL Mixer Breakfast @ Whit Norris' House


Chris Durfy

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The Super CMIT-2 seemed to produce frightening artifacts in extreme conditions with the DSP modes activated, the very same DSP modes that tack an extra $2,250 to the sticker price. As far as return on investment goes, I will stick with the plain ole CMIT-5U with its perfect combination of reach, rejection, and a very pleasing and natural reproduction of its intended source. 

 

Very hard to argue with that. I'm still inclined to think that the post sound department is better at minimizing extraneous background noise with tools like Cedar and iZotope after the fact. But I concede, there are clearly people who have used the Super-CMIT with great results, including Simon Hayes' crew on Les Miserables. 

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A very worthwhile comparison and you report interesting and valuable findings. Thanks to all the participants.

 

I would be interested to hear a little more about how the Neumann 82 fared in comparison with the standard Schoeps CMIT. Most of the reporting seemed (understandably) focused on the digital mike versus the conventional designs but the testing would also present a good opportunity to evaluate the comparative performance of the Neumann versus the Schoeps.

 

David

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UPDATE: I have drunk the Kool-aid. I just ordered my own Super-Cmit 2U. It will be here this weekend. 

 

I'm interested to use it in the next wide/tight and see how well the boom sounds over the lavs... but I am going to be very secretive about my new weapon on set... I don't want directors thinking they can get away shooting wide/tight too often!

 

I'll keep everyone updated on how things go.

 

Cheers,

 

-Chris

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We had a chance to try out my SuperCMIT in the real world on the set today.

 

There was a couple of things I noticed tonight and wanted to add to this thread:

 

1) It is damn cool to be able to record the Super and regular CMIT mode on the mic at the same time...(the AES outputs both tracks) that way, if you do get some adlibs - you still have them as well as you would with a standard CMIT. 

 

That being said, you can only record them to channels 1(Super) and channel 2(CMIT) or on channel 3 and 4, likewise on the 788t.

 

2) With the SuperCMIT, be aware your limiters will NOT engage in digital mode (at least with the 788t). Tonight we had a scene where everyone was speaking at a normal level... then suddenly yelling. First take, I was seeing red and red on both tracks of the SuperCMIT. I found I had to aggressively tweak the gain to get good results in this situation.

 

I'll keep on posting my findings.

 

Cheers,

 

-Chris

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We had a chance to try out my SuperCMIT in the real world on the set today.

 

There was a couple of things I noticed tonight and wanted to add to this thread:

 

1) It is damn cool to be able to record the Super and regular CMIT mode on the mic at the same time...(the AES outputs both tracks) that way, if you do get some adlibs - you still have them as well as you would with a standard CMIT. 

 

That being said, you can only record them to channels 1(Super) and channel 2(CMIT) or on channel 3 and 4, likewise on the 788t.

 

2) With the SuperCMIT, be aware your limiters will NOT engage in digital mode (at least with the 788t). Tonight we had a scene where everyone was speaking at a normal level... then suddenly yelling. First take, I was seeing red and red on both tracks of the SuperCMIT. I found I had to aggressively tweak the gain to get good results in this situation.

 

I'll keep on posting my findings.

 

Cheers,

 

-Chris

Yes any pair of tracks 1&2 3&4 5&6 7&8 on the 788T

I back the CMIT off about 8db from the super CMIT which gives me more of a chance with unexpected loudness without limiters.

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Anyone happen to know whether it is theoretically possible to limit an AES42 digital mic input on the input to a recorder please? Would be very nice to have this on a 788T.

 

The neumann range all have digital limiting done in the mic, not sure on specifics.

Regarding the super cmit 2U, from the  schoeps website

 

"Since firmware version 2.0 the SuperCMIT is equipped with a limiter (when gain boost is active) to prevent overload caused by very loud signals."

 

And in the Firmware history pdf:

 

"Firmware history:

2.0 (September 2011): Limiter on active gain

boost, improved high-pass filter as well as

beam former optimization to reduce artifacts

1.33 (September 2010): Ability to raise output

levels by 30 dB with a combination of button

presses

1.29 (June 2010): First released version of the

firmware

If you wish to have your SuperCMIT updated,

we ask you to send it to your dealer / distributor.

As a special service, for any major firmware

revision (i.e. if the first digit of the version

number changes), SCHOEPS offers you a free

update. You assume only the shipping costs."

 

hope that helps..

 

Regards,

Grant.

 

Found this interesting.

 

"A new approach to high directivity and sound quality

The SuperCMIT 2 U microphone uses exclusive technology from ILLUSONIC (patent pending). In addition to the capsule behind the interference tube, it contains a second, rear-facing microphone capsule. Digital signal processing (DSP) can analyze both signals and thereby distinguish discrete versus diffuse sound energy. The two signals are then combined in a time- and frequency-dependent manner such that the directional effect for discrete sound energy is increased while the level of diffuse sound is reduced.

At high frequencies (above 6 kHz) only the signal from the front-facing capsule is used, since the interference tube already offers optimal effectiveness in that range."

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Thanks but the 30db gain boost has to be activated each time the mic is turned on which is not very practical for me, and although one might get the knack of the timing of the 3 x double button press needed to activate it it's a bit hit and miss for me.

 

I'll email Schoeps to request whether the limiter might be activated without the 30db gain boost (which isn't needed with a 788T anyway)

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Bernhard Vollmer at Schoeps very kindly explained to me that the limiter is only relevant to the 30db gain boost scenario, and that the Super CMIT in normal mode cannot overload anyway until the maximum SPL 125db is reached. The overload I've experienced occasionally is purely caused by me adding gain in the 788T to enable me to easily monitor and match other analog mics for level, if using the Super CMIT alone one could / should just record with a lot more headroom.

But SD have indicated that it might be possible to enable a limiter on the 788T for AES42 inputs.

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Thanks again Chris for posting our findings. Having used the Neumann 81 and especially the Neumann 82 for doing my exteriors, I'm still convinced the super cmit is a specialty mic for a decent reach with a wider pattern (ad libs). The 82 seems warmer with better rejection and a better reach.

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