Mixing DPA 4060 & COS-11

[ZigFilm]

Hi folks -

 

Very new here (first post) and am loving all the great info!  Hopeing to get some advice -

 

I am putting together my audio gear and am thinking of getting a couple DPA 4060 mics.

 

I currently have (2) G3 units with COS-11 mics.  I am getting a couple Letro 400/411 units and am looking to either get two more COS-11 mics or get two DPA 4060. 

 

It would be nice to have a couple different mics in my arsenal but if I end up needing all 4 lav mics going at once, would they be too far off to match?  I am guessing the G3 & Lectro matching might be a bigger issue.

 

I do mostly narrative work.  I will want to cut these with the Sennheiser 8060.  I use the SD 664.

 

Thanks fore the help!

Erick

[Jeff Wexler]

It seems you may be looking at several potential mis-matches but none seem significant to me. I think it is safe to say that the DPA into the Lectro is almost always going to sound better than a COS-11 into the G3. I think the most significant factors regarding any potential mis-match will come from the differences amongst the individual voices you are recording, the favorability, or not, of mic placement, and lastly, the quality of the transmitter being used.

 

As for buying more lavs, I would always choose the DPA over the Sanken. I do have both since there are some situations where the COS-11 can be placed in a more favorable position than the DPA.

[old school]

You may know or you will soon find out, some voices sound better on one mic over another lav mic. I'd get some trams as well when the budget allows. Can't have to many.

CrewC

[ZigFilm]

Thanks guys!  Great points! 

[soundtrane]

one consideration: you are NEVER going to put the same lavalier mic on TWO subjects. So - the matter of mismatch is moot. Of course - so long as you stick to One system to One Actor. And choose the best between the two (or more) options you may have in hand - for the mic and the associated wireless system. 

 

However, it is totally ANOTHER thing to expect lavaliers to match with transmitters and yet another thing to expect the lavalier to cut with a boom mic. 

 

-vin

[ChrisH]

Get the 4061 not the 4060, you will have a hard time level matching the 4060 and Cos-11. With a 4060 SM transmitters have to be run at 0 gain where the same actor and action miked with a cos-11 will be at 10-15.

And if its your first lav mic get the Sanken easier to place easier to hide easier to install, they are also more widely used.

Also although I love the sound of the DPA the cable they use is more microphonic so you get cable noise much easier with DPA. The DPA's take quite a bit of experience to consistently get a good placement/install.

[LarryF]

Get the 4061 not the 4060, you will have a hard time level matching the 4060 and Cos-11. With a 4060 SM transmitters have to be run at 0 gain where the same actor and action miked with a cos-11 will be at 10-15.

And if its your first lav mic get the Sanken easier to place easier to hide easier to install, they are also more widely used.

Also although I love the sound of the DPA the cable they use is more microphonic so you get cable noise much easier with DPA. The DPA's take quite a bit of experience to consistently get a good placement/install.

 

The levels of the DPA can be tweaked with the value of the series resistor. Larger resistor, less sonic gain. Up to 4k is just fine.

Best,

Larry F

Lectro

[John Blankenship]

Like many here, I have both, and lots more.

The DPA mics sound awesome when placed just right, but that can vary depending upon wardrobe, etc. The Sankens are a bit easier to hide -- especially under thin or tight clothing.

If the DPAs are placed right, they'll sound closer to a 60 than the Sankens.

However, IF is a big word in this case. I find that I default to the Sankens more than the DPAs because I do a lot of gigs, such as commercials, where I don't have the luxury of tweaking a mic install much.

While the DPAs have a smoother response curve, the Sankens have a high freq boost that can help when you hide the mic under thicker clothing. Toward that end, DPA makes the 4071 which has a more tailored response which includes a presence boost and some low cut. These are the lavs that Simon Hayes used on Les Mis.

[Nate C]

Like many here I have both. I tend to use the sankens more for the reasons John mentioned above, although I do prefer the sound of the DPA's. I find that the DPAs blend into the boom easier. It has been quite some time since I have used Sennheiser mics, so someone else may have a more informed opinion on this. 4060-4063 series have two caps, a soft boost/flat or a high boost. The flat cap is great when using as a plant mic, hair rigs, thin clothing etc. Rarely do I find the need to put the high boost on. But I am glad to have it for the occasions it is required to make a voice sound that little bit nicer.

 

Cheers Nate 

[Christian Spaeth]

While the DPAs have a smoother response curve, the Sankens have a high freq boost that can help when you hide the mic under thicker clothing. Toward that end, DPA makes the 4071 which has a more tailored response which includes a presence boost and some low cut. These are the lavs that Simon Hayes used on Les Mis.

 

With a 4060/1 comes a high boost cap that is good for hiding the mic. I wouldn't get the 4071, as it has a low cut built in which you may not want when using the lav as a plant mic. The 4071 is also wider in size than the 4060/1. 

[John Blankenship]

I've never used the 4071, but comparing response curves, the 406x series hi-boost cap doesn't do much for the presence range. Its peak boost point is at about 12kHz. The 4071, on the other hand, has its boost centered at about 5kHz which should help dialog significantly if the mic is hidden under clothing.

I'm not recommending one over the other, as I've not used the 4071, just commenting on the differences as documented by DPA.

[Christian Spaeth]

Didn't know about the 5k boost. Might be better for some applications, true. I have used the 4060 with the high boost cap under thick sweaters though and it sounds pretty natural, pretty much like the normal cap under a T-shirt.

[Simon Hayes]

Guys the information of how to match a DPA to Lectrosonics SMV transmitters is on Lectro's website.

 

http://www.lectrosonics.com/faqdb/index.php/component/mtree/109-i-have-too-much-gain-with-my-dpa-microphone-when-i-use-it-with-an-sm-or-newer-400-series-transmitter

 

I like to use the 4071 DPA on the chest because it reduces the natural bass boost that is present when a lavalier is 

rigged on the chest,and so the 4071 sounds more natural to me,and cuts better with a boom mic.Essentially it sounds less like a lavalier.

 

The 4060 has a flat frequency response and,for my taste,sounds a little 'chesty' when rigged on the chest BUT these are the puppies i use in hats or wigs.

 

The 4060 also sounds pretty good in the roof of a car if i cannot get my schoeps MK41 capsules up there on collette cables because they will be seen.

 

I have just taken some delivery of some 'boundary layer' plates to use with the 4060's as plant mics,but again,in my opinion if i can get a BLP in,then i could also get a MK41 capsule in and i would always prefer that over a planted lav.

 

I am not a great fan of Sankens (i used them for 5 years or so) but it pays to have choices and there is no right or wrong.Just having the tools for every eventuality is a bonus.What i don't like about Sankens is their failure to handle high SPL's and their susceptibility to wind.

[Alexander Burstein]

Do any of you do A/B comparisons on set when mic'ing someone for the first time? I agree that lavaliers respond differently to each persons voice. I can imagine it being helpful to clip at least 2 different microphones to their chest and listen for which one you prefer. Given there being enough time.

[John Blankenship]

On commercials, I seldom have the luxury of much testing time. Though, if I find a particular mic isn't handling the job well, I'm likely to change it out.

Where A/B comparisons come more into play is on features where you could spend some pre-pro time optimizing your choices and placements, per actor and wardrobe.

[Christian Spaeth]

I can't imagine putting two lavs on a talent and then walking back to my cart and listen to the mics. I also almost never exchange lavs once they're mounted. It's just too much of a hassle and I would feel unprofessional. I only ever do that if a cable is broken or something like that. To pick the right lav, there are just a bunch of seconds to decide: I first see the actor/actress and what they're wearing, and hopefully they talk a few words, and that's about it, I pick a lav and hope it will do the trick. Then change placement if need be, but that's about it. Effectively my choice of lav is usually more dependent on wardrobe than the actor's voice.