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Boom Operator Monitoring - What do you use?


Den Nic

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  • 1 month later...

No issues with ERX. For Boom Operator monitor there is nothing better sounding in my book. We never did much wireless boom work in the past primarily because Don Coufal couldn't strand to listen to anything other than the hard-wired monitor he was used to. Wouldn't even consider Comtek, Lectro IFB was barely acceptable. When the ERX came out that was the first wireless monitor that really allowed you to hear an accurate full range monitor that rivaled a hard-wired connection.

Hi Jeff, 

I'm confused by this...  the ERX recievers as far as I understood are recieving a very limated frequency range,  I think glen said somethign like 50hz to 10khz...  ???   I think he told me it would be considered a scratch track for camera feed... 

 

correct me if i'm wrong, i'm intrigued as I always wanted to implement the ERX but opted to sit the QRX100's on camera.

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Hi Jeff, 

I'm confused by this...  the ERX recievers as far as I understood are recieving a very limated frequency range,  I think glen said somethign like 50hz to 10khz...   ???   I think he told me it would be considered a scratch track for camera feed... 

 

correct me if i'm wrong, i'm intrigued as I always wanted to implement the ERX but opted to sit the QRX100's on camera.

 

I'm not sure I understand your statement/question. The frequency range in the ERX is from 2.403GHz to 2.475GHz, giving you a total of 72MHz (or 0.072GHz, or 72,000KHz). I believe the bandwidth for each signal is 1MHz, but you should space each transmitted signal with at least 2MHz in between.

 

Anyhow, all numbers aside, using ERX as camera feeds is a viable solution, if recording double-system. I do it now fairly frequently. They are not, however, superior to a Camera Link / QRX100 combo (both in range and audio), so if you are recording single system, definitely go with your QRX100.

 

Just my $.02 :)

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Hi Jeff, 

I'm confused by this...  the ERX recievers as far as I understood are recieving a very limated frequency range,  I think glen said somethign like 50hz to 10khz...   ???   I think he told me it would be considered a scratch track for camera feed... 

 

correct me if i'm wrong, i'm intrigued as I always wanted to implement the ERX but opted to sit the QRX100's on camera.

 

According to the manual the frequency response of the ERX is 60hz to 12khz.  The audio is also compressed, so it doesn't sound as good as a full quality hop, but it sounds great for boom op monitoring.  If you want to deliver a mix on camera to be used later, I would recommend a full quality hop, the ERX will be a good sounding reference track.

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According to the manual the frequency response of the ERX is 60hz to 12khz.  The audio is also compressed, so it doesn't sound as good as a full quality hop, but it sounds great for boom op monitoring.  If you want to deliver a mix on camera to be used later, I would recommend a full quality hop, the ERX will be a good sounding reference track.

 

Ah, he meant frequency response! Then yes, the rule of thumb still applies. Single System, use full camera link (or hop) system; Double System, use ERX for reference.

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I use almost exclusively Wireless Boom and Wireless Boom Monitoring with Lectro IFB’s.

All the shows I have mixed the last number of years have been multi camera;  a wide

shot, close ups and coverage all done at once. The scenes can get spread out with lots of action going on where a Cable could get in the way. 

Since most of the show will end up being played on wires anyway the wireless boom makes sense. I use four headphone feeds; one to Comtek for the “Public Crowd” to listen to, an IFB for the Director and Script so I can talk directly to them, and two Boom feeds that I can send separate mixes to. That way I can give the Boom just the boom and the Utility just the wires. The Boom doesn’t hear the wireless mix and focuses just on the boom and the Utility can hear just the wires. If theres a problem with the wires they can hear and fix it, without being distracted by the Boom. I can also talk to them separately. As mentioned above they are also always listening to whats happening on the set in case they need to leave the set or be in another location. Another thing is my crew wears “In-ear” monitors. This is some what of a safety issue when working around Special Effects and animals being completely isolated can be dangerous. In-ear pieces have there own particular sound so having them listen to what I’m trying to mix may not be that helpful. 

I have been on single camera shows that were filmed in the traditional way of masters and coverage where a Cable would make sense. If I ever do one of those shows again I would certainly go back to the Duplex.

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Another thing is my crew wears “In-ear” monitors. This is some what of a safety issue when working around Special Effects and animals being completely isolated can be dangerous. In-ear pieces have there own particular sound so having them listen to what I’m trying to mix may not be that helpful. 

You mean like earbuds? I've experimented with using these occasionally, and I still haven't made up my mind on whether or not I like them.

Any thoughts on this?

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  • 1 year later...

I have tried various types of boom op talkback, but have found not really necessary. The boom op has a great mic at his disposal and we rarely need a private line. If we do, I'll turn down the fader, and solo the boom input. For the boom op's mix I use a G3 system too.

We often are on a long boom, and we're quite talkative. As I usually am quite far away from the front, I need him to quickly be able to give me a heads up on last-second changes.

Different workflows, different needs.

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I have tried various types of boom op talkback, but have found not really necessary. The boom op has a great mic at his disposal and we rarely need a private line. If we do, I'll turn down the fader, and solo the boom input. For the boom op's mix I use a G3 system too.

It's frustrating and counter-productive when a Boom Op has to collapse the boom and then re-deploy it every time s/he needs to communicate with the PSM.

My Boom Ops have Lectro IFB's for monitoring incoming signal, and Lectro UM's feeding UCR401a's for PL / talkback.

This system has proven invaluable countless times over the years. It's so much more efficient than expecting a Boom Op to collapse the boom every time s/he needs to say something. There's frequently no time for that. Ask you Boom Op about it.

~tt

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I don't talk that much with my boom op(s) between takes. If there is something really important for me, I can still tell them. If there is for them, they'll find a way. Takes about 5 seconds for an experienced boom op to collapse the boom. And it's not like I have set this in stone. We'll discuss various options frequently, but most ops don't want to add the extra gear to their belts.

Plus, I tend to park fairly close to the set anyway, so we can also talk in person - time permitting

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The boom op is usually on set when communication between me and them is going on. Usually they don't want to talk a lot, because there are a. Rehersals, b. Takes, c. Lights or cam being set, so a lot of talking is usually not desired. If they aren't on the very set they can come straight over to the cart to talk. Therefore I see no need for a talkback mic on the boom op. The old "two knocks on the boom means yes" trick takes care of almost every communication we need.

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The boom op is usually on set when communication between me and them is going on. Usually they don't want to talk a lot, because there are a. Rehersals, b. Takes, c. Lights or cam being set, so a lot of talking is usually not desired. If they aren't on the very set they can come straight over to the cart to talk. Therefore I see no need for a talkback mic on the boom op. The old "two knocks on the boom means yes" trick takes care of almost every communication we need.

The two-tap method is great for confirming yes or no questions, etc from the mothership, but I enjoy the ability to communicate more in-depth with my Boom Ops, and have found that some valuable and timely information can flow (especially from set to cart) via a TB setup that would otherwise be missed.

It's really just a question of what one gets used to though - when I started booming, it was a duplex cable: single-channel hard-wire to the (Nagra) with a HP rtn, and that was it.

Ultimately, it's the resulting tracks that count, and if you're getting great tracks, you're getting great tracks, no matter how simple or elaborate your gear is.

~tt

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G3. Good range with base station and shark fin. Can do two mixes in focus mode so the boys can have their own mixes. Switch to mono and the power output doubles. Transmitter sits right on the shelf next to my comtek bst. As a bonus, the receivers aren't terribly expensive and can automatically tune themselves via IR from a short line of sight distance.

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In deffernt disccusion on this web, iam read some list a stuff for wireless two ways talkback boom op monitoring with boom wireless setup.

And the question is, if me and my boom op use headphone mic, what the gear i need to buy ??, if my boom op use the mm1, the monitoring headphone mic are need phantom power or not from both stuff on the belt boom op??

Iam use 788t with cooper 208 board mixer, and iam use smqv tx with 411 rx, G3 tx and rx for my back up, comtek for director monitoring and send audio to video assist.

I never use headphone mic for me and for my boom op to get monitoring two ways talkback and wireless stup boom.

Let me know, how to create from my both stuff.

Thanks

PETMIX

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Indrasetno, the MM1 does not implement a boom operator "headphone mic" or a "private line" switch. Your boom op already has the boom microphone he can talk in. If you give him/her a second "headphone"mic, he/she still can not control, if the boom mic is open to the director or the recording mix.

Wisycom offers a PTT option that enables your boom op to switch the signal to a secondary output of the receiver, that can be routed only to your headphone.

Other than that, you could buy a cheap PMR446/freenet "WalkieTalkie" (with headphone output) for communication to you and use your G3 for communication and monitoring to the boom op from an 788t-output. When the communication needs to be private, your boom op can turn off his smqv or phantom power. The PMR446 might or might not disturb your Lectro and Comtek systems.

 

Apart from that, "headphone mics" come as dynamic, condenser and electret variants.

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