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Any thoughts on my field recording/broadcasting sound setup?


Umut

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cwsound,

 

Thanks for your concerns.

 

Grant,

 

This is what I said:  "I am an audio engineer and an instructor. I have a music engineering background (surprise!), worked mostly as an FOH and monitoring engineer since 2004, before I came to USA. I also did a lot of multitrack studio recording and mixing. I have been teaching audio engineering at college level since 2010 and got interested in film sound since I moved to NYC 1.5 years ago. I hold a B.Sc. in electronics engineering, pre-master's in music production and an MFA in audio engineering.

Umut

 

Crikey dude, I'll spell it out for you seeing as you don't get it.

Knowing how to act in a professional capacity on a film set as the HOD of sound is what I was referring to.

Or, how not to make a dick of yourself in front of the more experienced crew members, thereby "losing face" and more importantly, respect.

 

Grant.

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Whew quite a kit all good stuff. Wondering why you need a surround and a stereo mic?

Also for your COMTEK system skip the m-216 and get the bst-75 higher power and for only a few bucks more a real xlr connector and way better range. Also why the mix of Sennheiser wireless and lectro? I would recommend gong all lectro to simplify your maintenance needs and interoperability. Say you want to switch a mic and all you have left is one wired for Sennheiser. Get two venues instead of the rack unit Sennheiser. Then all your wireless is interchangeable.

Also I like the idea of the black box recorder but you might do better with a Mac and boom recorder not sure. Also I would like to steer you away from Mackie boards, I have never liked their sound. I would recommend the Midas Venice f (eliminates need for cables as you can record isos to a computer with just a FireWire cable. Also Allen and Heath makes good boards for cheap also with digital direct out options.

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There was a reason why this list was posted under "Equipment". Some of the comments included advices which I tell my students at the beginning of the semester, as the very first lecture. Some of the comments sound like the authors got offended by my equipment list. Some of them wishes me good luck sarcastically. I really cannot understand. This is (supposed to be) an equipment discussion. If you believe that I will not be able to do the job, simply ignore/do not follow this discussion; I will not be proving anything to you. If you have an idea about improving the list, please share; I will consider and gratefully buy you a beer when we actually meet.

Please keep in mind I may not have the experience you got, but may have most of the skills, experience and knowledge most of you assumed I do not.  Trying to improve a skill set is a plus for an engineer, not something to criticize or discourage. Otherwise Nick Allen would have never done multitrack music recording. I would never do this to a location engineer getting interested in FOH or studio recording. I would say "Hey! All in all, the fundamentals are the same: gain staging, mic selection, mic placement, clean signal transmission, communication, monitoring, metering. clocking etc. etc. etc.". Thanks to the ones who chose that way :)

 

Marc,

 

 

Thanks for the tips, I agree with them all, including the channel count for film. This system is required for a special task and may need more than 8 channels. I am not sure if you checked the updated list or not (I posted it again below), there are solutions for TC, power etc. and I would love to hear your thoughts about them. I'm open to any ideas which would improve the system. Unfortunately, I cannot talk about the details at this very moment, but here is the summary: My aim is to have a flexible state-of-art base which will let me do theater/film/broadcast when needed in the future (of course with some additions), this is why I want 24 channels. 

  • To have state-of-art gear
  • To have the option of having the bag and the cart running on different locations at the same time in the future (with addition of another wireless system).
  • To be able to record in surround when needed (with further improvements in mics)

 

Max,

 

I am not necessarily planning to use the DPA 5.1 mic on set (although I might), but the main purpose is to record ambiences, room tones, wild lines etc. I have been considering a number of microphones, but this one looked the most convenient. And I don't remember myself regretting using a DPA ever :)

 

Toy Robot,

 

I understand what you are saying, and you are probably right, but I take pride in what I do for a living and cannot tolerate stereotyping or prejudgment (especially from colleagues).

 

Studiompr,

 

I am not here to discuss my qualities, I'm sorry.

 

---

 


So here's the updated setup:

 

 

Multitrack wireless system: 


Lectrosonics - VR Field 

Lectrosonics SMQV Tx x6, 

Lectrosonics VRT Rx x6

Lectrosonics - ALP650L LPDA Shark Fin Style Antenna with Internal RF Amplifier x2

Lectrosonics - 50 Ohm Coaxial Cable for Remote Antennas (25') x2

LectrosonicsSNA600 - Collapsible Omnidirectional Dipole Antenna


Recording (8 to 24 track):

Sound Devices 788T-SSD 8-Track + CL WIFI 

Yamaha O1V96i w. DANTE 

Sound Devices PIX260i

 

Microphones: (maybe I'll have t give up on some)


Schoeps - CMIT WS4 SET - CMIT5U Shotgun Microphone Set (w/ Rycote - Windshield Kit)

Schoeps 2 x CMC6/41 (matched pair)

Schoeps GVC x2

Sennheiser MKH-416 (w/ Rycote - Windshield Kit)

Sanken - CSS-5 Stereo Shotgun Microphone (w/ Rycote - Windshield Kit)

DPA Microphones - 5100 Mobile 5.1 Surround Microphone

Crown Audio PZM-6D Pressure Zone Microphone

Crown SASS P MK II Stereo PZM 

Sanken - CUB-01 Miniature Cardioid Boundary Microphone x2

Peter Engh - OMNIGOOSE 6" GOOSENECK MIC w/TA5/F LEC


IFB:


Comtek - M-216 - Digitally Synthesized Wireless Transmitter (Option P7)

Comtek - PR-216 Beltpack IFB Receiver (216-217 MHz) x 2

Lectrosonics - IFBT4 Frequency-Agile IFB Transmitter 

Lectrosonics - IFB-R1a UHF Belt-Pack Receiver

 

TC: 


Timecode Buddy Wifi Master + Tx x2 + iPad (Slate) 


Power: 


Xantrex Freedom SW New Gen (inverters/charger)

Dolgin Engineering - TC200-SON Battery 2-Position

Sony - NP-F970 L-series Info-Lithium Battery 2 Pack (7.2v, 6600mAh) x2

SWIT S-8056N 70Wh NP-1 Li-ion Battery x2

SWIT SC-304 NP-1 Battery Charger

 

Cart/Case/Bag


(Still researching about the bags and other cart solutions, I'll have to try them first to decide, suggestions are welcome)

 

Monitoring:


Sennheiser - HD 380 Pro x3

Sennheiser – HD 280 Pro 


Accessories:


Various boom poles, stands, ORTF/XY/MS mounting brackets, handgrips, cases etc.

Latch Lake MicKing 3300 mic stand 

Radial Engineering - JS-2 - Two-Way Microphone Signal Splitter x2


Isolation:


Sound blankets (Producer's Choice) x4

sE Electronics - Reflexion Filter PRO (for wild lines on location)

 

Any comments, suggestions and ideas would be highly appreciated.

Edited by Umut
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Chris,

 

Thank you for the insight. Surround and stereo mic pairs are mainly for recording ambiences, room tones, wild lines etc. (although I already need the mics I'll use for stereo pairs, the only extra is the stereo bracket - and having them matched-pair"). The updated list (you may find above) doesn't have the Sennheisers. Comtek is a good idea, thanks! Regarding the JoeCo and Onyx, I already changed my mind :) I believe I'll go with Yamaha O1V96i w. DANTE and Sound Devices PIX260i. The more I read about Pix260, the more I love her :)

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You're gonna need more batteries and a power distribution system. I still say, rent the stuff first and get advice from the great local dealers in NYC. I sometimes carry as many as a dozen sound blankets and have used most of them on really problematic locations.

 

I'm not a fan of using the iPad as a slate, because it'll break when you drop it and it does not hold up well in sunlight, plus its battery life is half a day at best. A dedicated slate like the Denecke TS-3 will run and run and run on regular AA cells for a good solid 3-4 days with no problem, you can read it in bright sunlight, plus it'll survive a 3 or 4 foot fall onto concrete. 

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  • 2 months later...

I'd actually aim at having 3 separate rigs that could go out the door at anytime... a 3 channel ENG rig (the appropriate kit for most NYC low budget jobs), a 5-8 channel TV / reality rig, and a narrative / doc / cart setup.

Tom,

This is awesome advice to stumble upon, I apologize for directing the topic away from the original poster, Even after only 3 months of picking up indie gigs this sort of thinking is becoming more and more apparent to me. My wonder is if for my first purchase I should focus on saving up for mics and renting a recorder/ mixer from Gotham or buying something like a 552 and then renting the mics?

It seems like everyone here in NYC wants to do "Run & Gun" in the low-budget world, which is where I am at.

" What I really meant was the quality of production sound for low budget

projects (which I was mostly working on) was below industry standards. "

they don't pay enough for Zoom Recorders, Rode mic's, and Senn EVO 100's ...

not only will these clients not appreciate all that fancy expensive gear, there is no chance that all that "less copper on the record path" could even matter considering the situations you'll be working with... issues like bad locations, noisy sets, poor lockups, etc. etc. will come into play before any degradation from too much copper , etc. could possibly be noticed, even at 32 bit / 192 kHz.

Senator,

I currently own an H4n and I understand intimately why so many production sound recordist dislike the device having had to use it when I didn't have the option to check out a SD piece of equipment. While still sifting through the forum I am starting to formulate a thought process of using it for ISO 4 track via the external stereo 3.5" mic input under the XY built in condensers and the XLRs on the bottom. I was going to use this with say a 552 so I can gain the benefit of the SD pre-amps, and having a back up stereo mix or is this a wash cause of the quality of the H4n?

Since I am in NYC in the low budget world I figure that editors will be using my mix track more than my ISOs which could be taken from the 552 if the editor so choses which would be better quality than the H4n. Also, sometimes I have the option to use the Tascam DR-680 with a brand new production company that has one and my thought process was going out the direct outs of the 552 to the DR-680 and my mono mix on track one thus, taking advantage of all 6 tracks of the tascam and 5 of the 552 and doing a hop out of the 552 with the many outs it has?

Thus, saving me about about $2.5k on a Nomad or 664 and giving me time to wait for the next shinny multi-track recorder to come out as I grow as a mixer.

What do you guys think?

You should really concentrate on what you want to do. If you want to do features and TV, and work your way up, then buy gear focusing on that. I stand by my previous suggestions. Small, light, comprehensive.

Many folks here will tell you, what gets you hired back has as much to do with your efficiency on set (compact and comprehensive) and your ability to interact with the clients (have several Comteks available helps), as it does to do with quality of your tracks.

Do the research here and visit the folks at Gotham and/or PSS, as Senator has suggested.

Buying lots of gear in order to get work is backwards. Get work, then buy gear.

Robert

Robert, you guys are making me feel more and more confident about my path, again feeling very lucky to be a part of this forum.

Love the feedback thanks so much!

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Umut,

 

In terms of power feed, the Xantrex device weighs in at over just over 60 pounds for the 2000W version and over 70 pounds for the 3000W version and this doesn't include the batteries. It would appear to be intended for providing 120v power from a substantial 12 volt supply in RVs and boats or as an emergency back-up power system, not really for use on a location recording cart, unless you intend running out of a support vehicle.

 

Or have I looked at the wrong thing?

 

 

Regards,

 

John

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" production sound recordist dislike the device "

that does not necessarily mean it is not an option

 

" after only 3 months of picking up indie gigs this sort of thinking is becoming more and more apparent to me. "

you are a long, long way from multiple complete kits.

 

" What do you guys think? "

I think you are over thinking this, and dreaming;  that isn't necessarily bad, though...

just take your time, and act responsibly; if you dump a lot of money into top, pricey gear and then give it away on POS projects with no budget, (and usually no clue!), then you are heading into a bad downward spiral race to the bottom...
 

 

 

 

BTW: I was wondering how  Umut is doing

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" production sound recordist dislike the device "

that does not necessarily mean it is not an option

 

" after only 3 months of picking up indie gigs this sort of thinking is becoming more and more apparent to me. "

you are a long, long way from multiple complete kits.

 

" What do you guys think? "

I think you are over thinking this, and dreaming;  that isn't necessarily bad, though...

just take your time, and act responsibly; if you dump a lot of money into top, pricey gear and then give it away on POS projects with no budget, (and usually no clue!), then you are heading into a bad downward spiral race to the bottom...

 

Sen,

 

Your statement about giving away gear on POS projects makes even more sense now, especially after reading that thread about rates. You read me well, I have been known to over think many of things in my life. 

 

I shall keep you updated, Thanks again :D

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Mark, 

 

Not yet, this summer I'm set to do a feature for a student thesis, maybe two. There is a small production company that just started that some film student graduates and they have been doing well at finding investors and have some projects set for this summer as well. 

 

I am just trying to find out what I want my set up to be even if I rent, I got the h4n back when I started school and I honestly can't stand it but, If i can use it to get 4 channels of ISOs then I will use that with a rented mixer and mics until I have the money but in a few months I should have enough to purchase a 552. 

 

I did a gig and used the DR-680 without a mixer which was kinda annoying cause it only has one knob so it was a little frustrating to mix with. At the end of May I'm doing the 48 film fest which will just be 2 lavs and a boom. Might rent a 302 if I can get the producer to put up the money.

 

I will keep you updated.

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