Aircraft carrier shoot

[Marla Hettinger]

Hi there!

I will be doing a walk and talk tour with 4 people on a working aircraft carrier, in the middle of the ocean. Was curious if anyone knew of any frequency issues I may run across. I plan to use lectro's 411a's with smv/smqv's.

We are going to try and get the question answered through the thread of contacts but I wanted to do my own research knowing there are probably many sound people who

have done this.

Any thoughts would be great!

Thanks

Marla

[Philip Perkins]

There is a lot of very high power RF on an aircraft carrier @ sea, enough that you should have a backup plan that doesn't involve wireless.  You probably have a Navy liaison, I'd send your freqs to them and ask for advice.  If it was me I'd call up Gabe Monts and ask him what he did on his carrier doc.  Gabe--are you listening?

 

philp

[soundslikejustin]

Hi there!

I will be doing a walk and talk tour with 4 people on a working aircraft carrier, in the middle of the ocean. Was curious if anyone knew of any frequency issues I may run across. I plan to use lectro's 411a's with smv/smqv's.

We are going to try and get the question answered through the thread of contacts but I wanted to do my own research knowing there are probably many sound people who

have done this.

Any thoughts would be great!

Thanks

Marla

Apart from the frequency they're actually broadcasting on, you're going to get a lot of RF off the boat. There are high powered transmitters on those ships - akin to trying to shoot next to a television transmitter tower. Perhaps the freq they are using will be far enough away from yours that you'll be ok... are Navy still using VHF and MF/HF transmission?

edit: Phil beat me to it. Do that.

[Solid Goldberger]

Aircraft carrier radar systems can be HELL on audio gear.  On the deck, expect to get RFI on both your wireless systems as well as your boom.  Beneath deck, its a bit better, but i'd look into bringing the most RF-resistent boom system you can come up with (mine, a Scheops CMIT 5U, Ktek CCR boom, and a short coiled XLR into a Fusion was quite badly affected.

 

Good luck!

[Philip Perkins]

MANY years ago Curtis Choy told me about having to have a carrier's shop make him a copper-screen pouch to put his Nagra in, and then on deck he could only use a 416 with a 25 ft cable tightly wrapped into a 4" coil, leaving about 6" on either end.  Otherwise the military radar etc etc just completely killed him.  I'd guess many people have figured this out by now, but I really encourage you to search out a soundie who has worked carriers recently and so is up to date on dealing with their current technology.   There are some places on the ship where NOTHING will work.

 

philp

[jason porter]

We shot an episode of Mighty Ships on the USS Nimitz. I wasn't onboard for that one, but I believe there was a lot of problems with RF (mainly on camera hops, IIRC)

It is an unpredictable environment, make sure you have some options.

[Jim Gilchrist]

I worked aboard the USS Enterprise for one of the exhibits at the Air and Space Museum some years ago. We did hardly any sync sound but I did record lots wild in the flight control area, which was adjacent to the flight control radar system's antenna array, only a few feet away. i got a couple of 1 square meter rf resistant drapes that radio tower maintenance crews use to create safe areas for breaks up on towers and cut and hemmed up pieces big enough to wrap the Nagra. I ended up with a coil of cable much like Phil says Curtis Choy did but at the airboss's workstation no condenser mic would work well, I ended up using a dynamic hypercardioid. I ran a DAT machine in one of the comm stations a couple of decks down below the flight deck and it was clean but one of the 2 feeds I recorded from had the distinct sound of the flight control radar system fairly prominently featured. The DAT deck refused to work above the 02 deck even when it was wrapped up in the rf resistant fabric. When I went out to record some aircraft from one of the observation areas, I was able to find a place to be shielded from the worst of the radar sweeps.

Based on what I saw aboard the Enterprise and a couple of trips aboard an Aegis guided missile cruiser, you'll most likely be OK on the lowest couple of levels of the island and pretty much anyplace below the gallery, the deck below the flight deck. Out on the flight deck and above the third level of the island (06 deck, I think) will be problematic especially when flight operations are underway.

Take spares. Take at least one decent dynamic mic. Be prepared to be frustrated by the flight system and defensive system radars. Be prepared to walk a lot and climb lots of ladders. Have someone explain the rib numbering and deck numbering systems to you or else you'll end up lost. Repeatedly....

Above all, be safe. Aircraft carriers are huge and dangerous machines with a boatload (no pun intended) of lethal moving parts. Do what you're told, pay attention to safety briefings and work safely.

Best regards,

Jim

[Marla Hettinger]

Wow! Lots of great info here! You guys are awesome! I did PM Gabe and he has provided me with some great info as well.

Basically, it's a walk and talk, so my options are limited but I have some good ideas to suggest. Gabe did say take some earbuds to wear under the big helmet and sound protection so that's a great idea!

I'll take note of the rf shields and see about requesting them.

I am still listening so if something else comes to mind, I would love to hear about it.

I will report back next week to let you know how it goes?

Thanks again!

Marla

[OmahaAudio]

If they're going to fly you out to the carrier be prepared for the ride of your life.

[al mcguire]

Wear boots, your footwear is being evaluated as you debark the COD.

the warrant officer assigned to you is your best friend

if you are on a carrier know what turn and duck means while on the deck

the EMF that takes out audio gear also zaps digital cameras, so it will look as it sounds.

I brought a Sennheiser MD 46 in a rycote and it worked well on deck,

I also had hardwired sonotrims

have fun and hope there is a photographers mate assigned to you

[André Boisvert]

Jim or Phil, could you expand on the "coil of cable" idea? How does that help?

I did a shoot on a much, much smaller Canadian destroyer. I was fine below deck, but as soon as I got outside, in the line of sight of the spinning radar, I would pick up a clear, short "zip" every time it came around, every 2-3 seconds. At the time, I blamed my Sanken CS3e, but now I'm not sure it's the only culprit. I recently discovered that the shield in my internally coiled K-tek isn't braided, just a wrap around. AFAIK, a braided shield offers better EMI/RFI protection that non-braided. I hope someone will correct me if my assumptions are wrong.

If I ever get to repeat my experience, it'll be starquad, Neutrik EMCs, and I'll follow the very logical advice to bring along a dynamic.

 

[Solid Goldberger]

If they're going to fly you out to the carrier be prepared for the ride of your life.

 

Oh shit, I forgot.

 

When I did my carrier shoot, they flew us from the shore on a Blackhawk helicopter.  The whole inside was covered in some kind of red grease, and it ruined a bunch of my clothes.  Make sure to wear some things you don't care much about.

 

e.

[giancarlo]

I worked with a carrier battle group on alert in the gulf in 98 we were lucky enough to film on most elements of the group over a period of two months I had a basic kit back then of TC portadat, sqn4, 416, stereo schoeps rig, and 2 x 2020 audio ltd radios on freq 854-863 MHz shooting on super16, vessels worked on were two carriers the USS Independence and the USS John C. Stennis. various guided missile cruisers and frigates the dodo was for PBS NOVA called On Alert In The Gulf when on deck I had the usual radar zip on both cabled mics to varying degrees I had some success reducing this by shielding cables and recorder bag and varying my position for Wildtrack's underneath the tower in the shadow was ok depending on time of day,

The programme was part observational documentary so the lifesavers for me were my Audio ltd 2020 radios which remained largely unaffected during the shoot, even when on our chosen fighter pilot walking around on the flight deck during Air Ops

Re recorder problems on one occasion during a maritime interdiction raid when we had boarded a vessel smuggling Iraqi Dates we found during an interview my portadat kept switching off this was cured by asking our Frigate alongside to sector off it's radar,

Thoroughly amazing time was had by all hope you get to be up top during air ops.... one hits the deck every minute , and I hope you get a chance to feel the steam catapults on the COD taxi plane (the pilots call it the tube of shame) as its the least glamorous plane onboard, it was exciting enough I assure...

If I were to get an opportunity to do the shoot again I would be certainly taking old school mechanical backup like Nagra , your 411s have a fearsome reputation but are only one Rx as they use Aerial switching maybe an alternative brand might be good good Audio ltd new en2 dual Rx has a large switching bandwidth and its a true 4 Receiver dual diversity design as is Wisycom System both very impressive systems

I would also wrap all gear in Swiis shield RF absorption cloth and take some dynamic mic backups

Kindest regards to the group

Giancarlo

[Philip Perkins]

Jim or Phil, could you expand on the "coil of cable" idea? How does that help?

I did a shoot on a much, much smaller Canadian destroyer. I was fine below deck, but as soon as I got outside, in the line of sight of the spinning radar, I would pick up a clear, short "zip" every time it came around, every 2-3 seconds. At the time, I blamed my Sanken CS3e, but now I'm not sure it's the only culprit. I recently discovered that the shield in my internally coiled K-tek isn't braided, just a wrap around. AFAIK, a braided shield offers better EMI/RFI protection that non-braided. I hope someone will correct me if my assumptions are wrong.

If I ever get to repeat my experience, it'll be starquad, Neutrik EMCs, and I'll follow the very logical advice to bring along a dynamic.

With the coil you are just making a funky choke out of the cable.  Very unscientific, but it has worked for me in a pinch for both audio and video on occasion.  You may need a longer cable and a tighter coil--you have to experiment.  +1 MD46, good choice--on launches and arrests you don't have to worry about S/N!

 

philp

[giancarlo]

Maybe worth taking 4 x ZFR Zaxcom recorders as well for your walk and talk wouldn't hurt .....

Giancarlo

[André Boisvert]

I remember a discussion here quite a while back regarding certain lavs being more susceptible to RF when used with certain systems (sorry, my memory won't allow me to be more precise). With that in mind Giancarlo, which lavs did you use with your Audio ltd?

[pindrop]

Wear boots, your footwear is being evaluated as you debark the COD.

the warrant officer assigned to you is your best friend

if you are on a carrier know what turn and duck means while on the deck

the EMF that takes out audio gear also zaps digital cameras, so it will look as it sounds.

I brought a Sennheiser MD 46 in a rycote and it worked well on deck,

I also had hardwired sonotrims

have fun and hope there is a photographers mate assigned to you

Whats the helmet (with built in headphones?) that's being worn by both camera and sound? Could a monitor feed from the recorder be inserted to the headphones?

[giancarlo]

Hi Andre from memory it was cos 11's

[al mcguire]

>Whats the helmet (with built in headphones?) that's being worn by both camera and sound? Could a monitor feed from the recorder be inserted to the headphones?<

the government issued brain bucket - got to have it to go on deck - I was fortunate that the remote audio headphones fit where the navy's earmuffs normally go, again thank you photographers mates

On the Enterprise we worked out of the photography dept and they really are there to help you. It was a totally positive experience.

you can see the navy issue on the right and the modded version

[OmahaAudio]

When I did my carrier shoot, they flew us from the shore on a Blackhawk helicopter.

Helicopter? Luxury. Try a turbo-prop plane (you'll be facing backwards for the whole flight) that lands with the hook (it just STOPS) and then gets booted off the flight deck by a hydraulic ram thingy that gives a whole new meaning to the word "acceleration". Scary as shit.

[Marla Hettinger]

For curious minds, I will be flying in on a C-2 greyhound. From the pics ive seen, I don't think it has windows. So that should be interesting. I believe it's called an arrested landing (tail hook) and a catapulte take off.

Still listening to everyone and I appreciate all the advice. From Gabe, he suggested earbuds to be worn under the helmet/headphones provided by the navy while on the deck.

My options are limited, they are doing a walk and talk so wireless are needed. I will do the best I can and make suggestions as we go. It could be b-roll then covered with audio when we are below deck. We'll see.

I will give a full report when I return at the end of the week!

Thanks again!

Marla

[pindrop]

Helicopter? Luxury. Try a turbo-prop plane (you'll be facing backwards for the whole flight) that lands with the hook (it just STOPS) and then gets booted off the flight deck by a hydraulic ram thingy that gives a whole new meaning to the word "acceleration". Scary as shit.

Plane! That were luxury - we had to swim out towing flotation bags and be hauled up by crane!

 

 

[Tom Visser]

C-2, ah... your on the mail truck.

[al mcguire]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_C-2_Greyhound

the landing

and the catapult launch

[jason porter]

Whoohoo!!! Looks like fun.