Srgtfury Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 con safos.jpg -con safos- Simon...Steady Jack, Thank you very much Fury Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb1138 Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 I think I stumbled into a testosterone swamp. In my humble experience, I have found that an elderly ECM50 is somewhat less sensitive to high ambient environments than the cos11 or a tram. Boiler Rooms, Server Rooms, Nasty Street Corners and the like, dialogthat would be barely audible with a cos11 is "salvageable" with an ECM50. Theories nothwithstanding, my practical experience, the largish & foul sounding ECM50, circa 1979, will deliver an acceptable track considering the environment. Dunno why..... Just is. I keep 3 nearby. Cheers to all Yes I have also heard this, and I mentioned it at the beginning of this thread. Why is this so? And are the ECM50s the only ones that do this? Have you used the modern ECM55 and what do you think of Trams? They're pretty large lavs. I'm sure it'd be a hassle to use them. Sawrab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lezynski Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 I think most of the elders here started with ECM50 and then jumped to Tram (unless there was something inbetween that I don't remember)) because of the size. We already had a serviceable ECM50 and saw/heard no benefit to the 55. Matter of fact, the 50 was a marvel to those of us who used them and on camera talent who loved the Beefy(maybe Bison)Bottom End. 'Twas Mostly men at the time with the exception of Jessica Savitch, Barbara Walters, Linda Ellerby, Connie Chung who loved the size and the Beefy Sound of Authority. To painfully belabor a memory lane journey, the reason I resurrected the ECM50 in the 1990s was a sonic memory of an elder NBC Correspondent, Jack Perkins, who did a standup in some really crummy noise and when we got back to the feed point (way before internet) we were all thrilled at the minimal background sound. Been carrying an ECM50 around for the last 25 years.... I use it about twice a year.... can't fathom why we thought it was a great microphone though. There should be quite a few surviving ECM50 out there...... as I remember, the 50 was silver and the 55 was black Sawrab...... hassles are what we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Rose Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 A de-esser can help in post. So can judicious editing. But remember: excessive sibilance often takes the form of distortion. In pre-emphasized media (tape and most wireless) the highs are pushed almost to clipping, and an errant /s/ can push them over. Result can be a lot of harmonics that shouldn't be there. Having a de-esser pull the level down - or just pull the highs down - may sometimes fool the ear in context, but it isn't the same thing as cleanly recorded dialog. So the best place to catch it is during production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 " this is a public forum on the internet? Here no secrets are kept. " and no incorrect or untrue information is ever posted... right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 A de-esser can help in post. So can judicious editing. But remember: excessive sibilance often takes the form of distortion. In pre-emphasized media (tape and most wireless) the highs are pushed almost to clipping, and an errant /s/ can push them over. Result can be a lot of harmonics that shouldn't be there. Having a de-esser pull the level down - or just pull the highs down - may sometimes fool the ear in context, but it isn't the same thing as cleanly recorded dialog. So the best place to catch it is during production. I'm in full agreement. I've found, though, that 90+ percent of the time when people ask that question, they're asking about tracks they've already recorded -- the age old practice of not learning beforehand how to do it right, then asking after the fact how to fix it. For properly recorded dialog that still has a bit too much sibilance (headroom is our friend), I've had great success with de-essers -- even with the one that comes stock with Pro Tools (and we have many). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 " this is a public forum on the internet? Here no secrets are kept. " and no incorrect or untrue information is ever posted... right... So? Even a helpful honest response can be wrong at times. I'm sorry, I seem to missing the whole purpose of this forum. It seems at least partly, many here share the tricks of the trade (aka the secrets). Is this wrong? With regards to the Tram mic: someone said it was good at reducing ambient noise. I use the very similar Voicetech VT605 or whatever it's called. When mounted, its capusle is pointing towards the noise and not towards the mouth. Sure, it's omni directional, but I still find it's particularly unsuited for high ambient noises. Are there no dynamic lav mics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 "If you don't have anything nice to say, it may be better not to say anything at all". Don't know where that quote's from "Bambi" (1942) Mrs. Rabbit: What did your father tell you this morning? Thumper: [clears throat] If you can't say something nice... don't say nothing at all. Wow, how did you dig that up? Or do you just know the movie that well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 " Are there no dynamic lav mics " no, there are dynamic lav mic's " someone said it was good at reducing ambient noise. " translation issue... the mic's do not reduce ambient sounds, but some may be a bit less sensitive to it, or at least may seem so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 No, it's not a translation issue, it's a pickiness issue. <br />You knew full well what I meant. <br /><br />Would you care to elaborate on the dynamic lav mic, Mr Senator? Would they be helpful in the OPs situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 Anyone ever use an ecm 50 on an acoustic guitar? Try it sometime. Sorry for the digression. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
André Boisvert Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 there are dynamic lav mic's Yes, but they're a bitch to hide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Rillie Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 I think most of the elders here started with ECM50 and then jumped to Tram (unless there was something inbetween that I don't remember)) because of the size. We already had a serviceable ECM50 and saw/heard no benefit to the 55. Matter of fact, the 50 was a marvel to those of us who used them and on camera talent who loved the Beefy(maybe Bison)Bottom End. 'Twas Mostly men at the time with the exception of Jessica Savitch, Barbara Walters, Linda Ellerby, Connie Chung who loved the size and the Beefy Sound of Authority. To painfully belabor a memory lane journey, the reason I resurrected the ECM50 in the 1990s was a sonic memory of an elder NBC Correspondent, Jack Perkins, who did a standup in some really crummy noise and when we got back to the feed point (way before internet) we were all thrilled at the minimal background sound. Been carrying an ECM50 around for the last 25 years.... I use it about twice a year.... can't fathom why we thought it was a great microphone though. There should be quite a few surviving ECM50 out there...... as I remember, the 50 was silver and the 55 was black Sawrab...... hassles are what we do. Beefy. Yes. I played bass in a bluegrass band in the eighties and nineties. The beefy bottom end of the ECM 50 worked nicely with the Kay plywood bass. I would stick it in the f hole inside of a Yamaha motorcycle tail light grommet, which acted as a good vibration absorber. ( Info passed on to me from another bass player, BTW) The front of the mic poked out of the grommet about 1/4 inch into the body of the bass. Worked great for Pa systems. sounds like a weird position, but it worked well. Very little feedback issues, which agrees with David's theory that the ECM 50 did isolate well. Recording was another story. Usually with a large diaphragm condenser mic out in front near the bridge, or a Schoeps MK4 for some kind of isolation. Anyways, long after I stopped using the ECM 50s for voice, I was still using them for their useful qualities. Regards, Jim Rillie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berniebeaudry Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 Anyone ever use an ecm 50 on an acoustic guitar? Try it sometime. Sorry for the digression. CrewC At the studio I seconded at we had a special clip for putting an ECM 50 into the sound hole, facing up towards the strings. Usually combined with a SDC like a AKG 451, or a Shure SM 81 pointing a little up the neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 there are dynamic lav mic's Yes, but they're a bitch to hide. Why, it's barely noticeable. Great picture, though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Wow, how did you dig that up? Or do you just know the movie that well? There's this thing called the internet. <g> I knew it was from "Bambi" and a quick Google search revealed the quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Oh, right the internet! That's been mentioned more than once in this thread alone. I've got to check that out, sounds exciting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Oh, right the internet! That's been mentioned more than once in this thread alone. I've got to check that out, sounds exciting! The great thing about the internet is that everything you read there is true -- it's all been fact checked by the internet staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 Excellent! That makes it really worthwile to spend so much time there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Spaeth Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 I just realized that 100% of the useless, stupid, redundant posts that help neither the OP nor anyone else (as seen plentifully in this thread and of course many others), I realized that these posts are all written by men. Women, help us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 You think women are not capable of endless, pointless, stupid, redundant chatter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 " You knew full well what I meant. " sorry, but I had to re-read it, and re-read it again to realize it might have not been what it actually said in colloquial English, and thus possibly an acceptable error from a non native speaker. that L635 (lav version) is quite similar to early lav mic's (except for the flared top) .. EV, Shure, Sennheiser, and AKG all made dynamic lac's, amongst other manufacturers. Shure still makes one (and its on their excellent, thorough website) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Nault Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 thus possibly an acceptable error from a non native speaker. Sorry, Michael... Are you offering to vet people's language skills before posting? Or is this only a post-posting service that you offer? R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 <br />With regards to the Tram mic: someone said it was good at reducing ambient noise. <br />You really had to read that over and over to understand what I was trying to say? That is a surprise to me. Of course I didn't think it was a SuperCMIT in Lav-form. <br /><br />So with regards to the dynamic lavs, I wasn't really looking for the names, although that is a start. What I was hoping for is personal experience (from anyone, of course) and an answer to the question: could they be of help in the OPs stated problem? <br />A few here have mentioned that dynamic mics are less susceptible to ambient noise (better wording?) and thus might be helpful. Except for their need to be placed close to the mouth. That's why I thought a dynamic lav could be the answer. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted March 26, 2013 Report Share Posted March 26, 2013 " Are you offering to vet people's language skills before posting? Or is this only a post-posting service that you offer? " I have been warned that I need to be careful and not lower the bar by undercharging... " That is a surprise to me. " I have seen wilder mis-statements ... and microphones do not reduce ambient noise, though some may seem less sensitive to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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