nwstudios Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 I will not be buying PT11 and will be switching to another daw. Something I recommend others do as well. 3 steps forward, 5 steps back... Avid's financial situation alone would make me leery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwstudios Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 The whole video codec seems like a waste of resources to me. Was anybody suffering at the inability to play DNxHD video? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jozzafunk Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 So with all the recent publicity about how dire things are at Avid.... have they just sped up their 'feature' roll out for the next few years into a slightly upgraded ( maybe 64 bit's been kickiing around for a while ) release every few months, look to make some quick cash and then bug out? Based on what I read above and my experience with PT over the last few years I'll probably hang on to 10 with CPTK and all my favorite plugs working nicely, and then look at another option down the track too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastermixaudiomedia Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 Though I've dabbled in Pro Tools since it was Sound Designer then Sound Tools, I didn't jump into it until 9, which finally allowed third-party hardware albeit in a limited state. I went to 10 and will most likely get the CPTK and then stay there for some time. Too much stuff to replace if you even can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 Though I've dabbled in Pro Tools since it was Sound Designer then Sound Tools, I didn't jump into it until 9, which finally allowed third-party hardware albeit in a limited state. I went to 10 and will most likely get the CPTK and then stay there for some time. Too much stuff to replace if you even can. I'm not sure what you mean by "...albeit in a limited state." Using a native system with third party hardware, we haven't run into any limitations that I'm aware of. We do have the CPTK and maybe the features it adds is what you're talking about. 9 and 10 both have been really good for us (with the exception of the abysmal file handling that Avid refuses to improve). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsnd Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 Why should it be up to manufacturers to REWRITE ALL THEIR CODE FOR SOMETHING AVID BROKE?! RTAS was basically a plugin format ONLY USED BY AVID. Manufacturers already had to code RTAS special just for them. Now they have to change it all AND they are expected to do it for free. I already paid for Production toolkit which gave me all the features I needed of HD without having to go HD, Why do I need to buy it again!? I spent a VERY long time at the avid booth, in the back, talking to a lot of avid people. Their attitude toward it was something along the lines of - were avid, we can do what we want This is a direct quote from an AVID rep "If manufactures won't support AAX plugins, then they won't survive as a company" This quote then led to a heated argument. It all comes down to this - AVID is in a bad way. Since they took over digidesign they have screwed their customers maintaining a too big to fail attitude. They pushed and they pushed and they pushed and I think THIS is the final breaking point. They are alienating themselves from their users and I think they know it, but it doesn't matter to them because they are on the brink of collapse. This is nothing more than a get more money out of them as quick as we can, while we can / dig our way into the gutter while collecting as much free change on the way down mentality. If you upgrade to protools 11 - you are a fool If you upgrade to protools 11 and you have previously purchased the complete production toolkit - you are a complete moron I will be demoing and changing DAWs in the coming weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Rose Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 Can somebody explain to me why RTAS plug-ins usually cost $200 more than the same software in AU or VST? (Of course, I mean back when Digi was saying RTAS was the only way to go...) Seriously. Was there a licensing fee to Digi that the manufacturer had to pay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Hirtenstein Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 i'll say this: i am in no way pleased about what Avid is doing to CPTK users, however, I've spent years learning to be fast in pro tools. switching DAWs and learning all the ins and outs would probably lose me more money than the PT11 upgrade. but it still sucks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan H. Chang Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 This is a direct quote from an AVID rep "If manufactures won't support AAX plugins, then they won't survive as a company" This quote then led to a heated argument. What happens when none of them want to support AAX? Then that means AVID is all going downhill. Not surprised they said that to you, or any other interested party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 Avid's culture has always nurtured an "Avidtude" that seems to still permeate the company to this day. I expect such a customer disconnect will help hasten their slide into oblivion and Avid could easily become the Wordstar of tomorrow. Wordstar publisher, Micropro, was once the largest software company in the country and Wordstar, the number one word processor. Wordstar introduced many of the features we take for granted in computing today. Now it's mostly a memory for those of us who used to be proficient in the program. It's a shame how the revolving door of Avid management seems to continually sink it lower and lower. Putting it another way: I'm as excited to move up to PT11 as I was to FCP-X. As far as I'm concerned, FCP-X doesn't exist. Only if a really good client comes in and desperately needs us to work in X will we even consider it. I wouldn't be surprised if we maintain the same attitude toward PT11. After all, 10 is cruising along nicely, and the single most needed feature hasn't been addressed in 11 anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henchman Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 - "I think you have it backwards. Ill choose my WAVES and DUENDE plugins well before I choose protools. Protools is a daw. It doesn't make anything sound good, it just plays back tracks. Lots of other programs do that." I will not be buying PT11 and will be switching to another daw. Something I recommend others do as well. 3 steps forward, 5 steps back... Eeuw. Waves. Worst sounding plugins there are. I happily got rid if all the waves plugins in my Dialog/Music mix template. Good luck switching to anther DAW if you want to be compatible with anybody in major part facllties in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 Max, I'll tell you that I used to work in Pro Tools exclusively for sound editing. I used to play around with cubase, but not on a professional level. When I, back then, discovered how tricky the process of going the PT route would be, I just switched over to Nuendo and took a couple of days to get to know it properly. After a week or so I was more comfortable with nuendo than I have ever been in pro tools. For instance you can customize every key command (shortcuts for commands). That is a huge plus for me, and every transitioning person. So I just made every key command to be exactly like pro tools. That made the transition easy. Then of course there are things in nuendo that just work differently. Like bussing and aux-routing for example. But I much prefer nuendo's style because you can see everything in the daw working window... So making that transition might be easier than you think. And then of course Nuendo isn't the only choice.. I think what avid is doing is the grittiest, meanest and darkest side of capitalism. And it makes me sick. I hope adobe and final cut get their 5hit together to open up the market. And every other software maker of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan H. Chang Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 I hope adobe and final cut get their 5hit together to open up the market. And every other software maker of course. Adobe has finally gave way to OpenGL for Premier. HUGE news! Regarding DAW, I haven't done much of an update on my "regular" DAW since 2009. PT is still at 10, but that's only when I need to work in a big team of editors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henchman Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 I think what avid is doing is the grittiest, meanest and darkest side of capitalism. And it makes me sick. I hope adobe and final cut get their 5hit together to open up the market. And every other software maker of course. You have no idea what you are talking about. The move to a different format has nothing to do with capitalism, and everything to do with completely changing the architecture. Also, AAX means there will be no different coding for a plugin, one for HD and one for Native. A plugin developer only has to develop one plugin, and the same code can be then used for both HD and Native. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 Also, AAX means there will be no different coding for a plugin, one for HD and one for Native. A plugin developer only has to develop one plugin, and the same code can be then used for both HD and Native. Well, not exactly only one plugin, but one less. They still have to code a VST plug, if they want to have bigger sales. It's true though, moving to a new format, need not be all about money. If they believe it's technologically superior, they should do it. Same with Apple. Remember all the "excitement" when they moved to Intel? And they drop support for the older OS on a regular basis. Sure, there's money involved, but I think everyone agrees now, that technologically it's for the better. We have seen on the Windows side what it means to keep compatibility up for old software. Hampers the whole system. You can use VST plugs on ProTools via a wrapper, maybe there will be one for RTAS? If not, quick. someone do it, there's money to be made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 Sure they're changing the architecture and whatever, but still it's a pretty irresponsible move this short after the release of PT9 and opening up for third party hardware. And my retort was more aimed at that, not so much the RTAS / AAX deal. That sucks too, but makes more sense. But the upgrade paths and CPT elimination just... Well. That to me is an ideological move to make people pay more for something they've already invested heavily in. The studios in Sweden are pissed off at this. The market is very fragile and small here. So effectively it means that the studios with more money will be able to upgrade while the smaller studios will look at other alternatives and "fall behind". And that to me is capitalism. Avid is in a oligopoly, if not on the verge of monopoly, position and making these decisions they KNOW they are forcing people into change. Okay so capitalist might be the wrong word.. Capitalism and the ideological right sort of means the same thing in Swedish so.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 Of course, you're right Olle. I wasn't directing my post at you. Just offering another perspective on the plugin situation. The toolkit thing really bothers ne, too. I moved to ProTools (from Logic) with version 7. i bought the DV toolkit so I could do film work. Recently I thought about upgrading to v10. Turns out I have to buy the cptk now, no more dvtk. And now they are dropping that as well? I know the impulse to switch to Nuendo, but I'll resist it for now. It is so nice to just copy my project on an external drive and hand it to the post production mixer who also uses ProTools. Everything always works, not once have I had a problem. How would you do that with Nuendo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastermixaudiomedia Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 I'm not sure what you mean by "...albeit in a limited state." Using a native system with third party hardware, we haven't run into any limitations that I'm aware of. We do have the CPTK and maybe the features it adds is what you're talking about. 9 and 10 both have been really good for us (with the exception of the abysmal file handling that Avid refuses to improve). I meant in terms of availability of I/O, unless the CPTK removes the 32 In/Out limitation with third-party hardware. And come to think of it, I probably should upgrade both licenses to CPTK as I know how options "disappear" with Avid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonam Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 This brings back memories (not pleasant) of when i moved all my software investment from OS9 to OS10...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Hirtenstein Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 Henchman is right. If I become a nuendo user I will have severely limited my options of working at/with any post facility in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsnd Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 I meant in terms of availability of I/O, unless the CPTK removes the 32 In/Out limitation with third-party hardware. And come to think of it, I probably should upgrade both licenses to CPTK as I know how options "disappear" with Avid. Want to buy my CPTK license? Henchman is right. If I become a nuendo user I will have severely limited my options of working at/with any post facility in the US. No you wouldn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 Max that happend and here about "Nuendo System". We have three post-production studios for film/tv production. Two of those run PT10 or 9 I think and the other studio run Nuendo. The market here choose the studios with PT for more simple work because all run with Avid. In music market Cubase it's the leader here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henchman Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 Want to buy my CPTK license? No you wouldn't I don't know any studios here doing post that use Nuendo. Even John Ross very quickly had to add Pro-Tools to his studio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henchman Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 Btw, nobody is forcing anyone to move to PT's 11 right away. I know quite a few studios that are still on 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg sextro Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 sounds like i'll be staying with PT 10 for some time. BTW - anyone looking to buy an HDX1 system with an omni - let me know! Unused/unregistered. (switched back to the "LE" version after all these years using HD and am happy thus far) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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