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sergiofucchi

New problems in Europe to the frequency limitation.

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Until last year, the Lectrosonics SM/SMDB transmitters, calibrated for an output power of 50mW, could raise their power up to 100 mW and 250 mW.  EU rules provide for years to a maximum of 50mW, but sometimes it was very useful to temporarily exceed this limit in conditions of particular crowd.
 
From this year, this is no longer possible and this has led to further problems in Europe.
 
In fact, according to a European decision, the 2010/267/EU, as from 1 January 2013, the frequency band 790-862 MHz (above block 30) will be used for terrestrial systems capable of providing electronic communications services (ie mobile phones, TX data, voice , broadband video, etc.).
 
The cut of frequency in Europe can be a big limitation for our work. What Europeans who frequent this site think about it?
 
 
Sergio.

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What do you mean when you say Europe? That's the problem with the EU. In Sweden, those exact bands are the bands we can utilize with license, and it's even recommended! EU is not one big country... Like in the US, there are states where there will be differences regarding usable frequencies and you have to do your homework and check what frequencies are free for use with or without license in the area you will be working. 

 

So in a way what you're posting is wrong, at least for Sweden. 

 

I'm working on a site that will map the frequencies available for use, with or without license and information on how to acquire licenses and so forth... There will probably be changes to the way we work but saying that these bands are illegal for use in the whole of EU is like saying that UK now has to switch to right hand traffic...

 

Funny thing, I copied my post and went to translate.google.com, entered the text and found a new language in the list: Senatish.

This is the output of my post in Senatish:

 

It depends.

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Senatish:

It depends.

Love Senatish, I will use that from now on.

I think the idea really was for Europe (as in EU) to have harmonized regulations for these things, but it's catching on slowly. In fact, it's meant to be a worldwide effort.

790-860 MHz (don't know the exact number) has been auctioned off to the mobile carrier companies in Germany some time ago. It's for LTE use. Legally we can still use those blocks until the end of 2015, but the networks have been setting up their transmitters for some time now, so technically it may not be possible anymore.

The recommended alternative was 719-790 MHz, but this is being threatened now, too. But it may be a few years of.

I'm surprised this is new to you?

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Sweden is an EU member since 1995 and therefore Sweden is obliged to comply with the Community rules. I am surprised that Olle does not know that he too in the EU!

 

So he should be well informed before saying that what I said is wrong.

 

Sergio.

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Iceland is not yet a member of the EU, but it can happen that Sebben works in the EU that will have transmitters with frequency blocks up to 30. He may still use the upper, but may have difficulty in large urban areas, such as Rome, Milan, Florence, etc.

 

 

Sergio

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Well, go below 710 for now (sorry, mis-tyed 710 in my earlier post). There is no possibility for long-term safety, because this gets changed regularly, as the mobile networks demand more bandwidth. You can also use the duplex gap (if that's the English word?), which is 823-832 MHz. This is licence free, but likely to be crowded. Sennheiser is trying out the 1.8GHz band, which is apparently working quite well. Again, licence free. Everything below 790 requires a licence. Power-wise we'ce always been limited to 50mW and 100mW for WiFi. Doubt that's gonna change for the better. All if this is based on Germany, but should be similar across the EU. Check apwpt.org for latest info.

David beat me to it, darn! ;)

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Sergio I am well aware that Sweden is a member of the EU. I cried in grief with the rest of my family when we joined it. I detest it. Anyway. 

 

Yes I was wrong, somewhat. The frequencies 790-823 are not even on this chart, probably because they are illegal: http://pts.se/en-GB/Industry/Radio/Application/Wireless-microphones/

 

Frequencies 823-865 are free to use with no license, with a 10mw limitation from 823-826 and 863-865. 

Frequencies 470-790 are okay to use with a license until december 31st 2016. After that there will be new negotiations apparently. 

Seems I'll be getting me a Zaxcom system. 

EDIT: Yes, the exact same as Constantin wrote up there...

 

And these things are never talked about in Sweden because noone cares about anything other than the weather and the king (and his family of queens, princes and princesses and their babies) over here.

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ramallo   
In Spain is worse, now we stay in a kind of limbo, we have a legal band distribution from 2010. In theory the only bands in uhf for us are 862 - 868 and 1710 - 1930, but the actual reality is "who knows". 
 
The phone companies want all radioelectric space, specially the 800 band and less, but this bands in my country is property of the TV (They paid for it), the goverment sold the TV space to the phone companies, and the TV is on war against the goverment. The goverment have plans for cut the TV bands and get more space for TV by using lower frequencies. And of course, the UE have other plans.
 
IMMO in Spain is very dangerous go over 550 (Of course isn't legal), now I'm using block 21 with sucess, and block 24 with problems.
 
I want a rule from UE for regulate this madness (is very crazy do an investment in new radios)
 
Band attributions (2010)
 

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VAS   

No one here they don't know what happend with frequencies. RF chaos.

 

I'm starting to think. In the theory we are under the flag of European Union. Ok? Ok.

Why the whole EU countries they doesn't have a RF plan for all countries?

Is that so difficult to have one plan and law for RF?

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ramallo   

No one here they don't know what happend with frequencies. RF chaos.

 

I'm starting to think. In the theory we are under the flag of European Union. Ok? Ok.

Why the whole EU countries they doesn't have a RF plan for all countries?

Is that so difficult to have one plan and law for RF?

+1

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Until last year, the Lectrosonics SM/SMDB transmitters, calibrated for an output power of 50mW, could raise their power up to 100 mW and 250 mW.  EU rules provide for years to a maximum of 50mW, but sometimes it was very useful to temporarily exceed this limit in conditions of particular crowd.
 
From this year, this is no longer possible and this has led to further problems in Europe.

What do you mean? More than 50 mW is no longer possible? I don't get your point. More than 50 mW was and is illegal- what are you saying changed?

 

About the frequencies: get a license, it's not very expensive in most countries, I got Lectro blocks 21 and 24 and these work fine. They're gonna sell off everything sooner or later because cell phone companies offer billions, so who gives a damn about a handful of production soundies and theater folks?

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About the frequencies: get a license, it's not very expensive in most countries, I got Lectro blocks 21 and 24 and these work fine. They're gonna sell off everything sooner or later because cell phone companies offer billions, so who gives a damn about a handful of production soundies and theater folks?

Exactly, it's only about the money. The situation is very clear, however, on what we cannot use and it is getting clearer on what they are going to take away in a while. You know which are probably the safest frequencies? The ones that are in the middle of it all, i.e. the duplex gap I was talking about before, 823-832MHz. LTE is there already, so it's unlikely they'll take that away. No license required. It's just not that many frequencies left. Good news is: the way is going now, we won't have to worry about wireless mics and their frequencies, because all freqs will have been sold off, and we can only use cabled mics

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Good news is: the way is going now, we won't have to worry about wireless mics and their frequencies, because all freqs will have been sold off, and we can only use cabled mics

 

it will be much cheaper for us! i can spent the money in other great mics. yeah

 

Range 710-790 MHz will be gone soon, so I'm already completely changed to block 24. I have a license, but hate to pay for it. I see this license as a tax. 

 

It´s no problem - we in the EU have to pay for water from private companies soon. Everything is fine.

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VAS   

it will be much cheaper for us! i can spent the money in other great mics. yeah

 

Range 710-790 MHz will be gone soon, so I'm already completely changed to block 24. I have a license, but hate to pay for it. I see this license as a tax. 

 

It´s no problem - we in the EU have to pay for water from private companies soon. Everything is fine.

 

+1

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An actual solution, to stay wireless for as long as possible would be Wisycom radio mics. They cover 330MHz from 470 to 800 with just one system, so it's all there. And they have really small receivers. In fact they've got the smallest and the largest receivers I've ever seen.

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The problem in all this chaos is not so much to have or not have a license for a frequency. The real problem is that none of us works in one place but can go around the whole country and not just find more free that frequency because occupied, for example, by harmonics of defective implants.

 

Sergio.

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These are not "New" problems, but rather, continuing issues...

 

EU rules provide for years to a maximum of 50mW, but sometimes it was very useful to temporarily exceed this limit in conditions of particular crowd. "

first  of all,  raising power (for example above the limit) only adds to the interference situation... with the illegal power being a cause,  not an effect.

the rules for manufacturers being able to sell products in various territories are set bythe governing agencies of those territories, and if manufactures do not meet the regulatory requirements, they may not legally sell, or offer to sell or rent, their products in that territory; they must only offer type accepted products.

If you have issues with the regulations, you need to take them up with your government, not the manufacturers..

 

there is really nothing new here, as USA have gone through this (and survived, bitching and clawing all the way) , and it is continuing here, and around the world.

get used to it, we are the fleas, very tiny, and "they" are the big dogs... and they rule the territories

 

Touring companies deal with this, churches deal with this, auditoriums deal with this, banquet facilities deal with this, the manufacturers deal with this, nightclubs deal with this, entertainers, bands, and etc.deal with this,  etc. etc ETC! all deal with this, many on a much bigger scale than us!!

DEAL WITH IT....

Edited by studiomprd

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Or zaxcom... They can be more narrowly spaced. And the 2.4 ghz QC control makes for a workflow with Tx record only, eliminating the need for radio transmission on those bands... It's more cumbersome but it's a solution...

And cheaper than wisycom

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VM   

The cut of frequency in Europe can be a big limitation for our work. What Europeans who frequent this site think about it?

 

It's already done In France. Since December 2011 the legal band is from 470 to 790 MHz.
It seems that within 2 or 3 years the legal band will narrowed again...Probably somethng like 470 to 730. But it's still under discussions.
In France you can always find a place with any bloc in the legal band. As I am working a lot on documentaries on foreign countries I have purchased A Wisy MCR42 and 2 MTP40 : their band is 240 MHz and they sounds good to my ears.
As Senator said we have to deal with it...And we are already dealing with it !

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Radio City Music Hall, right in NYC USA has 300 wireless (UHF) transmitters just for the Rockettes' shoes (each shoe individually mic'd to pick up the tap's...  plus their intercoms, and vocal mic's...

BTW, they get best results adhearing to the 50 mw Broadway agreement!

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