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Sanken CS3 over Sennheiser MKH50

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I've heard that the CS3 is like the CS3e but with a worse noise floor. Since the CS3e is able to work quite well (not as well as the MKH50) indoors, would that mean the CS3 is able to also?

 

I'm not primarily a sound technician but I'm considering replacing my Rode NTG3 with the Sanken CS3 (used) or the MKH50 for indoors and (rarely) outdoor use. For outdoors I'll have my lavs for any scenes (not as good as mics yes).

 

The main reason why I'm looking at the CS3 is because it seems to have 2x the sensitivity/reach of the MKH50-- is that true in a real world sense (for dialogue)?

 

thanks

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I am HUGE fan of the 50. No secret. I'd pick it any day over every mic indoors, with exception of its equal but different competitor, the CMC641.

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It's been so long since I did the research on this microphone, but I believe the "e" is for an increased bass response from the CS3. The "e" standing for "emphasis". Not a noise floor issue.

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ohh I see

 

all CS3's can be modded to "e" version?

 

I'd like one that works fairly well outside too but since i have lavs I'm not anticipating I'll necessarily need it since outside is rare

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if you can only afford a 50 or a cs3e - i would choose the cs3e, but it depends on what types of jobs you do.

A Sanken cs2 might also be a good fit.

I'd like something with a good reach + great quality

 

I do video production and it seems that essentially my choices are

 

 

Sanken CS3e + Sennheiser G3 Lavs (oscartech)

 

or

 

Sennheiser MKH50 + Sennheiser G3 lavs (oscartech)

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If your work is varied then you'll probably use the CS3e and the MKH50 in equal measure. The 50 is usually, but not exclusively my mic of choice for indoors, my CS3e is used mostly outdoors, but sometimes I'll swing it indoors- usually in a big conference hall where I'm going to need a little more reach.

 

In my opinion, (and this is of course very subjective as everyone's work situations are different),  I would probably purchase the MKH50 first, not as a replacement for the NTG-3, but as an addition to it. The NTG is a shotgun mic and would do an adequate job outside, and you'll have something better suited for indoor work. After that I would then look to get the CS3e as an upgrade to you NTG-3. In fact that's similar to what I did- I began using exclusively a Sennheiser 416 for everything, then I added the MKH50 to give me a range of choices and then bought the CS3e. I kept the 416 as a backup and I actually still use the 416 from time to time as my first choice as it is a great mic, particularly in humid or extreme conditions. 

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I'd like something with a good reach + great quality

I do video production and it seems that essentially my choices are

Sanken CS3e + Sennheiser G3 Lavs (oscartech)

or

Sennheiser MKH50 + Sennheiser G3 lavs (oscartech)

So, if you are a camera man and using this Mic mounted on your camera, then the cs3e will have the best"reach" but will likely be too directional - it needs a proper operator. I will again recommend a cs2 for this application. An mkh50 will not be very useful on a camera unless you are consistently close to your subjects, or if it's getting used to gather ambience/backgrounds

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I'd recommend contacting Martin at Plus24 (American Sanken rep) regarding the possibility of upgrading an old CS3 - martin@plus24.net

 

I have a CS3e, 416, and a Schoeps CMC541.  I like them all.  Mostly I keep the CS3e on the boom for all-around ENG work.  I prefer the Schoeps for interviews and indoor work though.  That said with a lot of my work switching mics is too cumbersome or time consuming and I find that the CS3e works well inside too, better than the 416 which seems more prone to comb filtering effect in certain reflective rooms.  For some reason the CS3e is less susceptible to this.  I've only used the MKH50 a few times but people love them.  

 

It's all subjective really.  You should try renting both and demoing them on a real job before you decide.  They're all good choices.

 

Good luck! 

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Another point to consider is that the CS3e is a little bit longer than most other short shotguns.  Makes booming low ceilings tricky.  

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Better yet, if you are doing video production as a job, talk to your clients about paying for a sound guy to work the audio instead of doing it all yourself. Just a thought.... I don't pretend to know your situation, but I have found that there is always room for negotiation :D

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Yes "Talk to your clients about paying for a sound guy"

 No mic will sound much good camera mounted or at a distance.

A lower cost hyper alternative is the AT4053, around $600-700 new; an ever lower-cost alternative is the Oktava 012 $200-300 new.

The Oktava is shorter (4.12"), a right-angle adapter can be put between the capsule and body as well.. It has lower output (10mV) than the Sennheiser (25mV) or AT (22mV). The Oktava has other caveats to be aware of.

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" I'm not primarily a sound technician "

yes it shows...

good that you ask ??'s

but this stuff is not really simple or foolproof (it is not plug'n play)...

for example:

" I've heard that the CS3 is like the CS3e but with a worse noise floor. "

yes, and no, you heard wrong

"it seems that essentially my choices are "

you only scratch the surface,  barely!

" all CS3's can be modded to "e" version? "

yes,  <cap>  (distributor= plus24 in LAX)

CS3e's are OK indoors sometimes, (it depends!) but primarily at their best outdoors

 

" the CS3e is a little bit longer than most other short shotguns. "

actually one should be thinking: the CS3e is a little bit shorter than most other long shotguns.

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" I'm not primarily a sound technician "

yes it shows...

good that you ask ??'s

but this stuff is not really simple or foolproof (it is not plug'n play)...

for example:

" I've heard that the CS3 is like the CS3e but with a worse noise floor. "

yes, and no, you heard wrong

"it seems that essentially my choices are "

you only scratch the surface,  barely!

" all CS3's can be modded to "e" version? "

yes,  <cap>  (distributor= plus24 in LAX)

CS3e's are OK indoors sometimes, (it depends!) but primarily at their best outdoors

 

" the CS3e is a little bit longer than most other short shotguns. "

actually one should be thinking: the CS3e is a little bit shorter than most other long shotguns.

hence my questions

I don't mean to sound neglectful but i'm asking all the questions I can with the knowledge base that I have--I specialize in video and I've seen a lot of video oriented people who don't care about audio and I'm not going to be one of them

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I'll include my frequent referral  of Jay Rose's books at www.dplay.com

 

folks have been giving you good information and recomendations

as you are noting, there are lots of alternatives.

 

is there a problem with the NTG-3 ??

caution,  less experienced folks often expect too much reach from shotgun type mic's, (there is always signal to noise ratio) and that is often combined with unrealistic expectations of total rejection of sound from off axis.

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I own both (and upgraded my cs3 to cs3e from +24 for about 5-600$) and love them. Cs3e stays in zep for outside and mkh50 stays on invision for inside. I do use cs3e once in a while for the extra reach inside or noisy location. I switched from one to another in betwenn two shot of a scene today that starts outside and finishes inside.

It sounds fine to my ears but do you guys think that is a mistake to switch within same scene?

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It's all subjective really. You should try renting both and demoing them on a real job before you decide. They're all good choices.

Good luck!

This is the best advice and this was offered to you in your other very similar thread. And just in case you're next going to ask for a comparison between the Schoeps SuperCMIT and the Sennheiser MKH50, the best answer will still be the same

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