How often do you (the location sound recordist) find that production asks you about sound design/mix?

[cory]

I always enjoy doing sound design and mix for a movie that either I, or a friend of mine, has done the location sound for-- I know how things were recorded, what bumps to expect, where to look for good wild sound/tone, etc.

 

However, unless the project is a narrative and I have a relatively close relationship with the director, I usually find that the post goes elsewhere for one reason or another.

 

Any advice?

[Tim M]

I don't understand you? Are you a post production audio professional or a location sound professional? As I find myself doing more and researching more about location audio...eventually one falls away. I appreciate guys who love post as much as I love location audio...to the point where I usually suggest a post friend of mine so when he gets offered a location gig he sends them to me. If your heart is in post then do that...just remember the guys on here who are paying off their houses with working usually don't do both. Maybe I'm wrong but that is IMO.

[cory]

Hey Tim,

 

I do both and love both-- my frustration is that clients seem to want me to do either production or post on a given project... instead of both, which I find very gratifying..

[Philip Perkins]

I don't understand you? Are you a post production audio professional or a location sound professional? As I find myself doing more and researching more about location audio...eventually one falls away. I appreciate guys who love post as much as I love location audio...to the point where I usually suggest a post friend of mine so when he gets offered a location gig he sends them to me. If your heart is in post then do that...just remember the guys on here who are paying off their houses with working usually don't do both. Maybe I'm wrong but that is IMO.

What the OP describes is pretty much how I started doing post, having started in location movie and music recording.  The USA movie industry is very biased towards specialization, while in Europe I see one soundie carrying the soundtrack of the film all the way through post fairly commonly.  When I started in post I was doing this, but over the years the clienteles of my post and production sound businesses have diverged.  Too bad--I wanted to work the Euro way, but the way the biz here is structured kind of militates against this.  I think this is mostly down to scheduling, really.  Most people I work with seem to like the idea that I have expertise in the other side of whatever we're doing, and each side has helped me get better at the other.  As a freelancer I have the hallucination of control over my schedule, so I can make room for projects I want to do from both sides of the divide, and do. 

 

philp

[Tim M]

Yes as Phillip suggests it is the European way to do it, and when I started out I did both as well, I've found as I get to bigger projects they have bigger budgets and faster turn around, so I would rather the really efficient post guys who do it EVERY day do it. Just makes sense to me.

[JonG]

I got my start in Europe where I did both production and post, and loved it. When I began working in the US I did the same thing, but usually on really small projects where the client didnt know anyone who knew anything about audio but me. As time went on, I have been asked from time to time to do the post as well, but more often than not I turn it down because most productions run out of money by the time they hit post audio, and are asking for favors. I also wont do post on something I or a friend (or someone I know to be a real pro) didnt do the production sound for.

 

I'd love to do more of it, but Ive strictly done production sound for a really long time now other than a short or two each year, so at this point I dont think I would do as good of a job as others might, since my pro-tools skills are getting rusty.

 

When I wanted to do both, I would ask the client "who is handling post?" Usually that will be followed up by "I dont know, do you know someone?" on indie projects. Reality not so much. I will say that if you are not Pro-Tools certified (possibly among other certifications) it is harder to get those post gigs. I did fine because I used to work in music and have certifications in all kinds of software and studio gear. Pursuing knowledge will only help you, so read manuals and contact the manufacturer, and the University of Google is always open!

[Dan Joseph]

On "lower" budgets/indie/internet content jobs, I find more often then not the director/producer will want a video editor to also be the sound editor.  Same thing in corporate jobs I have worked, they would rather pay one person to do it all because, at least on the internet jobs, "It's content, not quality."  

[Jesse Flaitz]

On "lower" budgets/indie/internet content jobs, I find more often then not the director/producer will want a video editor to also be the sound editor.  Same thing in corporate jobs I have worked, they would rather pay one person to do it all because, at least on the internet jobs, "It's content, not quality."  

 

 

A lot of the corporate stuff I do is talking head interviews and as much as I'd like to get some post work on those vids, it's not going to happen.  The sound recorded is quality enough they don't really need much beyond syncing it with the video and being done with it.

[old school]

Long, long ago, RVD and I dreamed of doing production sound for films and doing all the post work too until the segregated compartmentalized reality of Hollywood showed us the light. It was a sweet dream though.

CrewC

[atheisticmystic]

Im starting post on a short I recorded sound on, and as others have noted, it's a favor.

I like doing both, Im going to hold on to the dream of doing both as long as I can.

best

[Philip Perkins]

I go back and forth between post and production with enough regularity that I stay pretty "efficient" in both, at least for the work that comes my way--it's like the diff between driving your work van and driving your car, basically.  The idea that one person can't do both jobs is a myth--many people on both sides worked successfully on the other for awhile--what held them back from continuing was the structure and scheduling of the movie+TV biz in the USA.   Re Pro Tools "certification" being necessary for getting work in post, this is another myth promoted by various "certifiers" willing to take your money for that "certification".  The "certification" you need is the same as that needed for getting production sound work--verifiable experience (IMDB, resume etc) and recommendations from people the prospective client trusts.   Nothing else matters.

 

philp

[studiomprd]

" Any advice? "

well, some thoughts...

on big budget, "real" projects post is often occurring in parallel with production.

on lo-budget POS projects: " most manyproductions run out of money by the time they hit post audio, and are asking for favors. "

or they don't have much, if any, post for sound,  : " more often then not the director/producer will want a video editor to also be the sound editor. "

 

" wont do post on something I or a friend (or someone I know to be a real pro) didnt do the production sound for. "

this is only possible on  lo-no budget (POS) productions.

 

while Philip is correct, " The idea that one person can't do both jobs is a myth--many people on both sides worked successfully on the other for awhile--what held them back from continuing was the structure and scheduling of the movie+TV biz in the USA.  "

but not typical of many segments of the business, where Production Sound is a specialty, with plenty of costly production sound equipment, and full service, high end post production sound is a different specialty with scads of very costly specialized equipment and facilities required; as a going business, these facilities cannot afford to be idle during production

[Henchman]

"Jack of all trades, master of none" comes to mind.

I would never be as good a re-recording mixer as I am, if I had spent my time splitting myself between location sound, various post-production jobs, and mixing.

I don't even edit. I just mix. Using people for their specialization, is how you end up with a much better final product.

And having been on the tail end of fixing people's projects, after having be done by someone doing an all-in, I can guarantee you, hiring someone to do everything, will not give you the best final sound.

[cory]

Mark,  

 

You seem to be working on a lot of the kinds of projects in post that I'd like to get my hands on. Is this just a function of being in LA vs. being in NYC?

 

I am definitely a better re-recording mixer than feature narrative location sound recordist, but I love going out on doc-style shoots and like to think I'm pretty good at it... it just drives me nuts that I don't land the sound design/mix on projects I've been the location recordist for as often as I'd like.

 

" Any advice? "

well, some thoughts...

on big budget, "real" projects post is often occurring in parallel with production.

 

while Philip is correct, " The idea that one person can't do both jobs is a myth--many people on both sides worked successfully on the other for awhile--what held them back from continuing was the structure and scheduling of the movie+TV biz in the USA.  "

but not typical of many segments of the business, where Production Sound is a specialty, with plenty of costly production sound equipment, and full service, high end post production sound is a different specialty with scads of very costly specialized equipment and facilities required; as a going business, these facilities cannot afford to be idle during production

 

Senator, 

 

I happen to have the good fortune to have a plethora of awesome toys in both realms available to me here at the Silver Sound studios, as well as a few friends who can keep the wheels in motion while I'm out on set--- any thoughts about ways to entice production into using us for both location AND post?

[studiomprd]

glad you have: " the good fortune to have a plethora of awesome toys in both realms "

" any thoughts about ways to entice production into using us for both location AND post? "

CL and Mandy

Movie schools

small to mid size corp projects

awesomely awesome posters well placed at bodego's 

[Philip Perkins]

"Jack of all trades, master of none" comes to mind.

I would never be as good a re-recording mixer as I am, if I had spent my time splitting myself between location sound, various post-production jobs, and mixing.

I don't even edit. I just mix. Using people for their specialization, is how you end up with a much better final product.

And having been on the tail end of fixing people's projects, after having be done by someone doing an all-in, I can guarantee you, hiring someone to do everything, will not give you the best final sound.

And, "you don't know what you don't know" comes to mine.  

 

You were a master of music recording, now you are a master of post.  Allow that others can be masters of more than one task, at least for some kinds of projects.  I understand that this may not happen in your circle of acquaintance, but it does happen in mine.

 

philp

[Philip Perkins]

glad you have: " the good fortune to have a plethora of awesome toys in both realms "

" any thoughts about ways to entice production into using us for both location AND post? "

CL and Mandy

Movie schools

small to mid size corp projects

awesomely awesome posters well placed at bodego's 

In the USA you have to be very careful about how you approach this or you will confuse your clients--not a good thing if they are confused about you.  I think I'd recommend doing them both for diff clients, and let word get out that you have skills on both sides and see how it goes.  As has been pointed out here already, being The Guy for a whole film soundtrack is really dependent on how they are scheduled to work, as well as the scale and complexity of the project.  You can't be The Guy for "Les Miserables".  You could be The Guy for "All Is Lost" (that new Redford sailboat film).

 

philp

[studiomprd]

You can't be The Guy for

" Great Gatsby"   or

"Man of Steel"  or

"Iron Man III" or

"Star Trek: into Darkness"  or ...

 

 

 

You could be The Guy for:

"  We are looking for someone to record high quality sound for our web series. And we are looking to pay you very little. It will be a full 4 day shoot and we can offer you 450 total. Our sets run very smoothly, we have water, crafty, and we don't buy pizza for lunch.

I could tell you that the project is a great one, and that we love working with people that work well with us on future work, BUT you've heard it all before.

Contact me if you are interested, please include a little sample of something you recorded sound for.

-Addison, Director "

(part of the same $ "450 total"

Edited May 24, 2013 by studiomprd

[Henchman]

 

You were a master of music recording, now you are a master of post.  

 

philp

Because I focused my attention on one specific area.

Yes, I have cut sfx, edited dialog etc.

But my expertise is mixing. Specifically dialog and music.

[Henchman]

Mark,  

 

You seem to be working on a lot of the kinds of projects in post that I'd like to get my hands on. Is this just a function of being in LA vs. being in NYC?

?

I would have to say yes. Absolutely.

[Tim M]

Senator is correct. Thanks for mentioning your studio...I will be sure to not recommend you in the future. I would rather go to henchman who SPECIALIZES in post stuff. It seems once you start doing post you can then even specialize in a certain area like dialogue editting. Etc.

[VASI]

What is the sound design?

Making a robot (like Transformers) to sound normal in human ear.

 

So putting atmospheres, dialogues, foley in a project that is not "sound design".

 

Sorry but for me the sound design is unrealistic picture (like monster robot) to sound "normal" in human ear and need to say "yeah that's a robot".

[cory]

Senator is correct. Thanks for mentioning your studio...I will be sure to not recommend you in the future. I would rather go to henchman who SPECIALIZES in post stuff. It seems once you start doing post you can then even specialize in a certain area like dialogue editting. Etc.

 

Hey Tim-- if I'm understanding you correctly then your remarks seem awfully not-cool. I don't think you should dissuade people from working with others if you don't know what kind of work they do! (Don't judge my work before you hear it.) My studio certainly "SPECIALIZES in post stuff", and I personally specialize in re-recording mixing with an emphasis on dialogue editing and sound restoration.

[Philip Perkins]

You can't be The Guy for

" Great Gatsby"   or

"Man of Steel"  or

"Iron Man III" or

"Star Trek: into Darkness"  or ...

 

 

 

You could be The Guy for:

"  We are looking for someone to record high quality sound for our web series. And we are looking to pay you very little. It will be a full 4 day shoot and we can offer you 450 total. Our sets run very smoothly, we have water, crafty, and we don't buy pizza for lunch.

I could tell you that the project is a great one, and that we love working with people that work well with us on future work, BUT you've heard it all before.

Contact me if you are interested, please include a little sample of something you recorded sound for.

-Addison, Director "

(still only $ "450 total"

You can be the Guy for much better than that, and I have been and I am.  I've nearly paid off a house and educated 2 kids thru college being the Guy a lot of the time.  I have never eaten any food from Subway.

 

thanks!

 

philp

[Philip Perkins]

Senator is correct. Thanks for mentioning your studio...I will be sure to not recommend you in the future. I would rather go to henchman who SPECIALIZES in post stuff. It seems once you start doing post you can then even specialize in a certain area like dialogue editting. Etc.

Where is this coming from?  If the OP is on a smaller market you kind of have no choice but to be versatile.  You can specialize if you are A: in LA and B: are talented, hardworking, experienced and handsome enough to compete with the Henchman.   Doing both production and post makes you better at both--you can then decide if you want to do the LA thing and specialize there.   The one thing I'm very sure of is that if you want to do both kinds of work but don't try to, you won't ever get to.  

 

philp