Jeff Wexler Posted April 7, 2006 Report Share Posted April 7, 2006 An excellent description of workflow from BWF to FinalCut Pro using BWF2XML software was recently posted on r.a.m.p.s. Here is the link: http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/basic_bwf_audio.html Regards, Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takev Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Hello Everyone, I've been breaking my head on the native BWF Import into FCP problem, and I've kind of solved it. I've made a QuickTime plugin that would replace the default .wav file loader from Apple. This plugin will read in any .wav file like the original Importer Component, but with specially crafted .wav files will also import the timecode. I say specially crafted .wav files, as it will not be able to do this for standard BWF files, this is due to how QuickTime stores a timecode value, which is different on how it is stored in a 'bext' chunk of a BWF file. The problem basically is that QuickTime does not see timecode as metadata but as actual-data, QuickTime calls it a timecode track. Like a video track and audio track a timecode track also has samples, except in most files there is a single timecode sample with a duration of the complete audio/video clip. A timecode sample in QuickTime is either a big endian 32 bit integer giving the number of frames since midnight, or a set of bytes for hour,minute,second,frame. In BWF the timecode is a little endian 64 bit integer giving the number of samples since midnight. By simple adding a new "QuickTime timecode" chunk with a big-endian 32 bit integer nr frames per midnight field to a wav file, you can natively import the wav file into Final Cut Pro. I will let Boom Recorder add this chunk to the bwf file and publish the specifics of this chunk for other people to implement it in their equipment. It would also be rather easy to make a tool to add this chunk to existing files, by either appending it to the end of a file or by replacing a junk-chunk. I'll be working on it further. Cheers, Take Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted May 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 I will let Boom Recorder add this chunk to the bwf file and publish the specifics of this chunk for other people to implement it in their equipment. It would also be rather easy to make a tool to add this chunk to existing files, by either appending it to the end of a file or by replacing a junk-chunk. I'll be working on it further. Cheers,  Take Quite a complex but undeniably complete explanation of the FCP Quicktime - BWF issue. As you may know, almost every year at NAB, we have approached Apple to talk about direct import of BWF into FCP. The word has always been that they're working on it. From what you say it is unclear whether they will be able to do this with Quicktime working with "ordinary" BWF, the sort of file that ALL the recorders, including BoomRecorder (at this time) deliver. Regards, Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 From what you say it is unclear whether they will be able to do this with Quicktime working with "ordinary" BWF, the sort of file that ALL the recorders, including BoomRecorder (at this time) deliver. FYI, I'm fairly sure that Metacorder generated BWF files CAN be directly imported into Final Cut with their timestamps intact. Best, Darren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takev Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Darren, I am not sure, I thought they where adding a separate QuickTime stub file which you import into Final Cut Pro, in the same way as described in the link from Jeff. Otherwise I would be really interested to know why only BWF files from Metacorder can be imported into FCP. The only thing I can come up with is that Metacorder creates a hybrid file that is both a QuickTime movie and a BWF file, my hat off if they succeeded. My current approach seems to getting there, the new Boom Recorder exports the QuickTime timecode chunk and the audio files imports into FCP with timecode, however, the wrong timecode. Cheers, Take Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Otherwise I would be really interested to know why only BWF files from Metacorder can be imported into FCP. The only thing I can come up with is that Metacorder creates a hybrid file... Not sure what you mean by a separate stub file. Metacorder generates one file per recorded take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takev Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Darren, Strange Cheers, Take Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takev Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Hi, I am very happy, it works as I wanted. I will also write a small utility so that you can patch normal format BWF files from other equipment to include a QuickTime timecode chunk, and as a bonus will also fix BWF files that were corrupted due to a crash during recording. I am not sure yet on how I will package these; included with Boom Recorder or as a separate program. Cheers, Take Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted May 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Hi, I am very happy, it works as I wanted. I will also write a small utility so that you can patch normal format BWF files from other equipment to include a QuickTime timecode chunk, and as a bonus will also fix BWF files that were corrupted due to a crash during recording. I am not sure yet on how I will package these; included with Boom Recorder or as a separate program. Cheers, Â Â Take I think you should continue to develop capabilities like what you have shown above and head in the direction of providing a full featured BWF utility program (like Courtney's BWF Widget software) that addresses the files created using Boom Recorder AND any other recorder (Deva, Fostex, Sound Devices, etc.). If this utility could generate lists, sound reports from metadata, etc., AND of course runs on a Mac, this would be a wonderful thing. It should be a stand alone program and, if it seems right to you, bundled and integrated with a new version of Boom Recorder. If it is a stand alone utility and does a few more useful things as we have discussed, it could be a very good selling product for you even to lots of people who do not use Boom Recorder. If you are able to find out what Courtney's BWF Widget provides and also possibly what the Majax software from Aaton provides (only works with files made by the Aaton Cantar recorder and they will NOT do a version for those who do not own a Cantar), you would have a terrific piece of utility software for all of us Mac users. Regards, Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted May 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Darren, I am not sure, I thought they where adding a separate QuickTime stub file which you import into Final Cut Pro, in the same way as described in the link from Jeff. Otherwise I would be really interested to know why only BWF files from Metacorder can be imported into FCP. The only thing I can come up with is that Metacorder creates a hybrid file that is both a QuickTime movie and a BWF file, my hat off if they succeeded. Â Â Take Of special interest to Darren and to Take V. is the following post from Mark Gilbert, Gallery Software, Metacorder: We have recently uncovered some new behaviour in QuickTime 7.1 which may cause problems with the Final Cut Pro timestamps on files recorded with Metacorder. If you are using Metacorder for a Final Cut Pro workflow, please avoid QuickTime 7.1 for the time being. We will have a new version of Metacorder which can work around the problem with QuickTime 7.1 shortly. The issue is that QuickTime 7.1 is now making its own attempt at timecode information when working with WAV files, and unfortunately it prevents Final Cut from seeing the correct information in the Metacorder delivered timestamps. The QT7.1 timecode data is also incorrect so it causes a variety of additional problems besides preventing the Metacorder stamps from being seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gray Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 I think you should continue to develop capabilities like what you have shown above and head in the direction of providing a full featured BWF utility program (like Courtney's BWF Widget software) that addresses the files created using Boom Recorder AND any other recorder (Deva, Fostex, Sound Devices, etc.). If this utility could generate lists, sound reports from metadata, etc., AND of course runs on a Mac, this would be a wonderful thing. I'm sure Take will have a solution long before I do, but I am planning to do exactly this. Already have a python script that reads metadata from BWF files and prints it out - easily customizable for different formats. Unfortunately it's command line only, but it helped me work out the specifics... Don't hold your breath though I'm sure Take has vastly more programming experience than I do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 Of special interest to Darren and to Take V. is the following post from Mark Gilbert, Gallery Software, Metacorder:.. Thanks Jeff, good info. I haven't found myself on a Final Cut show yet, but between Take and Mark I'm feeling fairly confident that this will be sorted out. Best, Darren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted May 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 I'm sure Take will have a solution long before I do, but I am planning to do exactly this. Already have a python script that reads metadata from BWF files and prints it out - easily customizable for different formats. Unfortunately it's command line only, but it helped me work out the specifics... Don't hold your breath though  I'm sure Take has vastly more programming experience than I do... Cool... I didn't know you even had the inclination to do these things. I won't hold my breath (but I will look out for something great to come from your efforts). Regards, Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takev Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 If you are using Metacorder for a Final Cut Pro workflow, please avoid QuickTime 7.1 for the time being. Are you sure it's 7.1, I am currently running 7.0.4. Maybe they have a development version. I guess my program will be obsolete when it comes out. Take Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted May 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 Are you sure it's 7.1, I am currently running 7.0.4. Maybe they have a development version. I guess my program will be obsolete when it comes out. Take I just re-posted what was posted to the Metacorder group where QT 7.1 was mentioned. I am running QT 7.04 now which I believe is the current version out there. - JW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 I have 7.04 as well, which does appear to be the latest version available from Apple's Software Update. Perhaps 7.1 isn't an official release yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcopenhagen Posted May 15, 2006 Report Share Posted May 15, 2006 I am not sure, I thought they where adding a separate QuickTime stub file which you import into Final Cut Pro, in the same way as described in the link from Jeff. Otherwise I would be really interested to know why only BWF files from Metacorder can be imported into FCP. The only thing I can come up with is that Metacorder creates a hybrid file that is both a QuickTime movie and a BWF file, my hat off if they succeeded. I don't know how they've handled the FCP compatibility. One possibility is that Gallery has borrowed some code from itself: they have a program called XMLPro which handles BWF to FCP to audio post-production, utilizing XML. It seems likely that they could have included some features of that software in Metacorder. But, as we're beginning to see, Gallery is getting screwed up by Quicktime 7.1. -Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcopenhagen Posted May 15, 2006 Report Share Posted May 15, 2006 I have 7.04 as well, which does appear to be the latest version available from Apple's Software Update. Perhaps 7.1 isn't an official release yet? I'll be doing some relevant testing regarding BWF/FCP workflows. I'll keep you all informed of how that goes. I've just installed FCP 5.0.4 + Quicktime 7.1 via Software Update. So, yes, QT 7.1 is available. I also have about 11 GB worth of monophonic BWF files I recorded (using Boom Recorder) for a short film that will need to be synced in FCP. One potential problem for me will be video/audio frame rates. Here's the details: 1. Shot 35mm film at 24 FPS 2. Telecine to HDCAM at 23.98 FPS, which will be the editing timebase. 3. Audio was recorded at 30 FPS. My spider-sense says that the audio should be pulled down to 29.97 to line up to the video 23.98 rate. The audio won't be synced in telecine, it will be imported directly into FCP (after jumping over the BWF hurdles). Question: How can I pull down the audio files for syncing in FCP? I'm sure someone has figured out a workflow or a workaround for this, but I haven't dived deep into the forums to find it yet. Any ideas here? Cheers, Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted May 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2006 I have 7.04 as well, which does appear to be the latest version available from Apple's Software Update. Perhaps 7.1 isn't an official release yet? QT 7.1 is official now, it works, but all the other possible implications have not yet been discovered. Quicktime has always opened and played BWF for me without a problem and now 7.1 will display timecode in a window within the QT player (maybe it's always done this... I only discovered it with QT 7.1 - JW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takev Posted May 15, 2006 Report Share Posted May 15, 2006 Hi Jeff, This is the first time QT reads in a form of timecode from a BWF file. However, this form of timecode seems not yet to be compatible with Final Cut Pro. Cheers, Take Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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